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Trump's Tariffs Fail Again

Original Article

Posted By: zoidberg, 9/5/2019 11:20:21 AM

In his book The Art of the Deal, President Donald Trump described his communication style as "truthful hyperbole." Hyperbole, sure. Truthful, questionable. Take Trump's recent speech in Pennsylvania where he declared that his tariffs had turned things around for the domestic steel industry. He also claimed the unratified United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement—USMCA or the new NAFTA—and his steep Chinese tariffs would also bring jobs back to the United States. Are the Trump trade policies bringing about a manufacturing revival?


I don't know if Trump understands that tariffs are taxes paid by Americans.

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Reply 1 - Posted by: another_clinton 9/5/2019 11:29:15 AM (No. 172153)
What people dont understand is that little by little, manufacturing jobs left the U.S. because wages were high and so were prices. Cheaper materials in China led to the collapse of the steel industry in the U.S. Now, Trump wants to bring that back. Unfortunately, Americans have become used to cheap steel, which propogates its way through the entire U.S. economy. If Chinese steel was comparable to U.S. Steel in price, American cars would cost $75000 minimum and would drive the economy into the dirt.
6 people like this.

Reply 2 - Posted by: ZeldaFitzg 9/5/2019 11:33:05 AM (No. 172157)
Here we refer to him as President Trump.
51 people like this.

Reply 3 - Posted by: Historybuff 9/5/2019 11:45:56 AM (No. 172166)
Dear Reason: Please see the Stock Market today after China came around to Trump's way of thinking.
35 people like this.

Reply 4 - Posted by: BarryNo 9/5/2019 11:47:33 AM (No. 172167)
Any trade policy depends on the people involved to act in their own best interests, economically. But what if some of those involved have a different agenda? Say, a political agenda? Considering that the beneficiaries of failure, are the leaders of Red China, I must ask what connections, the CEOs of these 'failing companies' have with China, and do they have far bank accounts attributable to China?
10 people like this.

Reply 5 - Posted by: StormCnter 9/5/2019 11:50:30 AM (No. 172170)
Holman Jenkins writes that the president didn't really understand what could or might happen with the tariffs. He was a businessman, a construction magnate, and international trade wasn't something he was expert in. I think that is true. I also hope that the ship regains stability. There's no good outcome if that doesn't happen.
3 people like this.

Reply 6 - Posted by: SALady 9/5/2019 11:50:41 AM (No. 172171)
President Trump is first and foremost a businessman. He plays the "long game". And he is very successful doing it. He knows you may suffer short term losses for long term gains. Tariffs work that way. Veronique De Rugy needs to trust her president, Donald Trump, because he understands this game way better than she does!!!
30 people like this.

Reply 7 - Posted by: jimincalif 9/5/2019 11:51:02 AM (No. 172172)
My degree is in Econ, so I get it. We studied the models and on a purely economic basis tariffs are a loser for the country imposing them. But this is only the first level of relevant costs. What are the downstream costs of doing nothing? Not just China, either. If, by exercising economic leverage now (yes undeniably at a cost to us), does this avoid even greater costs down the road? Wars cost lives and money, allowing technology to be taken without compensation costs money, what would be the impact of China taking Taiwan? Can the use of economic leverage now help avoid some of these outcomes and the even higher costs associated with them? I don't know, no one can know for certain, and the problem with economics is you never have the alternate reality to compare results. The president's tariffs make me nervous, but I am open to keeping our eyes on the bigger picture.
10 people like this.

Reply 8 - Posted by: john56 9/5/2019 11:51:08 AM (No. 172173)
These yahoos will be saying this as Pres. Trump and the Chinese are signing the deal. The only issue is whether the Chinese want to wait out and see if some surrender Democrats/RINO Republicans take power in 2020 or if they think the best deal they'll get with Pres. Trump is before the 2020 election. The terms may get a little tougher in 2021 if he wins. I'm thinking that all Veronique read of "The Art of the Deal" was the dust jacket.
15 people like this.

Reply 9 - Posted by: Lawsy0 9/5/2019 11:55:29 AM (No. 172176)
Dear Veronique; Go sit on a tack.
18 people like this.

Reply 10 - Posted by: LadyChurchillUSA 9/5/2019 11:56:30 AM (No. 172179)
Hate to tell you honey but the Chinese press is reporting that the Chinese are having to eat the tariffs themselves as the Americans will not pick them up. Perhaps it would help to be a bit informed but then as a member of the MSM no such requirement exists.
22 people like this.

Reply 11 - Posted by: LadyHen 9/5/2019 11:57:55 AM (No. 172182)
Since when has American trade policy been about pure economics? It's politics, Stupid. Everyone else seems to know this, including President Trump.
15 people like this.

Reply 12 - Posted by: Blue-Z-Anna 9/5/2019 12:19:31 PM (No. 172193)
American industry lives to return a profit to shareholders (your 401 and little old ladies). Chinese industry lives to fill the rice bowls of billions (slave wages) and prevent them from storming the halls of Government (Tienanmen Square). Therefore: The Donald has them by the balls and he will win. question.
24 people like this.

Reply 13 - Posted by: Toby Ten Bears 9/5/2019 12:20:42 PM (No. 172195)
Let's surrender to the Chinese! That'll make Reason and their like minded cowards feel better about themselves. (America will still be getting screwed... What a plan)!
12 people like this.

Reply 14 - Posted by: bella 9/5/2019 12:26:51 PM (No. 172200)
I don’t know if OP understands President Trump.
15 people like this.

Reply 15 - Posted by: Safari Man 9/5/2019 12:27:39 PM (No. 172201)
Sometimes libertarians can be a bit thick; these things can take time. I have little use for Treason Magazine.
10 people like this.

Reply 16 - Posted by: Starboard_side 9/5/2019 12:36:04 PM (No. 172207)
Ah, the nitpicking from the Left as something isn't exactly happening the way Trump says, or comments about. Sure, the tariffs can cost more to the consumer, but it's not really that much, and I think the Left is upset that it's not their TAXES that are increasing instead. You see, they would have no concern for increase in taxes taking a hit on the American consumer, but if it happens to be in the cost of a product, they're suddenly upset. Many of the products are made under DDP and CNF terms, which means any cost changes from the contract are the sellers responsibility, including the due date the product was to be delivered. If they can't deliver by the deadline, there is a penalty, in most cases, and if they are behind, for whatever reason, they will either pay the penalty (usually 10-20%), or will need to airfreight the cargo, which was not planned but a cost they will need to absorb. Many products have shifted manufacturing to other countries for the product destined for the United States, thus, not having tariff apply too. Trump should announce he will use 100% of the money collected by the tariffs for some program, possibly infrastructure.
2 people like this.

Reply 17 - Posted by: bighambone 9/5/2019 12:39:32 PM (No. 172213)
It’s away to soon to legitimately claim that President Trump’s tariffs have failed. To gain any advantage over China the USA has to pay a long game. However the USA playing an effective long game may not be possible, because the US President, economic, and foreign policies change either every four or eight years, while the Government of China has been continuously and permanently Communist in different variations since 1949. Therefore China can institute economic and foreign policies that are substantially a permanent governmental position that they believe to be in China’s National interest, while the USA has been tripping all over itself every four of eight years to change economic and foreign policies depending on the politics of the day. Bottom line, China considers itself to be politically well organized and strong, and that the USA is politically unorganized and weak.
4 people like this.

Reply 18 - Posted by: Hermoine 9/5/2019 12:44:14 PM (No. 172219)
The long and the short of it is this...we are either going to have to deal with China now and live through the short-term pain (in order to get them back on their heels) or we are going to have let it ride and deal with China later and live with a lot of long-term pain because we will be back on our heels. They are trying to dominate the world and, so far, the Trump administration is the only one to deal with them sternly.
6 people like this.

Reply 19 - Posted by: Nashville 9/5/2019 12:50:02 PM (No. 172231)
Steel is selling for less per pound now than it was pre tariff...FYI
9 people like this.

Reply 20 - Posted by: hershey 9/5/2019 12:50:58 PM (No. 172232)
Reason is an unfit name for a magazine whose writers/editors can't reason past the end of their noses...
7 people like this.

Reply 21 - Posted by: ARKfamily 9/5/2019 12:56:11 PM (No. 172237)
So we have to stay dependent on foreign nations?
3 people like this.

Reply 22 - Posted by: Golden Goose 9/5/2019 1:04:49 PM (No. 172245)
What would you have us do about China, Veronique? Maintain the status quo?
5 people like this.

Reply 23 - Posted by: Heil Liberals 9/5/2019 1:07:59 PM (No. 172248)
Which war does everyone want to fight with China, the trade war or the shooting war? The question is never if, but when.
4 people like this.

Reply 24 - Posted by: DVC 9/5/2019 1:31:33 PM (No. 172273)
Tariffs ARE NOT paid by Americans unless two things happen, first, the seller has to pass them on - so far this is NOT happening in the China tariff situation, the exporting companies are "eating them", and second, Americans have to CHOOSE TO PAY THEM. How many other taxes are entirely voluntary? Tariffs incentivize Americans to not purchase the tariffed goods, and to find alternatives....usually American products. And they incentivize producers in the tariffed country to move their production elsewhere. Both of these are great goods, and BOTH of them are happening. Reason is a libertarian rag, and like all libertarians they are far, far more interested in their neat libertarian theories than they are in anything that is actually happening in the real world. Libertarians can be good fellow travelers on certain issues, but ultimately they are just fools who are locked into their theoretical solutions, and uninterested in or even unwilling to even look at the REAL WORLD consequences of their neat theories. Rand Paul is a good example....a good guy on a few things, but a total PITA on about 2/3 his beliefs. Libertarians very quickly become quite tiresome if you are actually trying to accomplish some real goal. They never seem to notice that their neat theories rarely work, or in the wreckage of 'collateral damage' that they create.
12 people like this.

Reply 25 - Posted by: judy 9/5/2019 1:35:25 PM (No. 172278)
I am so sick of the complaining from business owners who moved their factories to China & now expect us to feel sympathy for them. They & China had a free ride for years while Detroit, WV, NC, Ohio suffered with job loses, ghost towns. While enjoy paying low wages & we continue to pay high prices. One thing for sure the consumer did not win. The only ones who won was China & the traitor business owners. Apple is a prime example, high prices low wages.
7 people like this.

Reply 26 - Posted by: msjena 9/5/2019 1:37:02 PM (No. 172282)
I'd be happy to buy things not made in China--if I could find any. Our trade policies with China have to change. We are feeding a monster. If it means consumers have to pay more, so be it. If it means giving incentive for American companies to compete with China, even better.
8 people like this.

Reply 27 - Posted by: M2 9/5/2019 2:41:30 PM (No. 172361)
I’m not so sure. Our stocks are doing great.
4 people like this.

Reply 28 - Posted by: HotRod 9/5/2019 4:05:46 PM (No. 172428)
''I don't know if Trump understands that tariffs are taxes paid by Americans.'' Dear Veronique: So far, they have not paid anything significant. The Chinese have been eating the tariffs. The government does not force people to buy cheap Chinese goods, so if they ever pay for tariffs it will be their choice.
3 people like this.

Reply 29 - Posted by: Yuban 9/5/2019 4:13:46 PM (No. 172432)
If nothing else, this article has brought out some of our old time middle of the road posters to take out a hit on the POTUS.
7 people like this.

Reply 30 - Posted by: Proud Texan 9/5/2019 4:53:29 PM (No. 172460)
Sounds like Reason doesn't have the "reasoning" that God gave to a rock!
2 people like this.

Reply 31 - Posted by: NYbob 9/5/2019 7:22:47 PM (No. 172571)
LOL, some posters, writers and reporters are so funny. They earnestly yap about things they have zero experience with. President Trump has spent a lifetime doing all kinds of impossible deals. Some blew up in spectacular fashion, but many succeeded in ways no one expected, except Donald Trump. It is this age of arrogance where pin heads brainwashed by constant TV propaganda, think they know more about history, negotiations, big business, and people than a man with a proven record. You may not like him, but this guy has had more high level meetings where his ideas and his money were on the line than ANY politician I've ever seen in my long life. Perhaps former President Eisenhower would understand given his experience in organizing millions of men prior to becoming President, but anyone since has simply been a good talker. The deluded fools at Reason and this writer came up with a fictional story about the current situation based on their very limited experience in such gigantic issues. It is a farce. I wouldn't trust the writer, anyone at Reason or the OP to buy a car for me, much less give me advice on the 'foolishness' of this President. The Chinese will do a deal. It might not be everything President Trump could ask for, but it will be unbelievably better than what the usual President or any rat could do.
5 people like this.

Reply 32 - Posted by: Daisy Mae 9/5/2019 11:41:06 PM (No. 172689)
I am surprised that the L dotters are so miss-informed about China, Prices of Teriff products, and about steel. First Prices have not gone up, many companies that were doing manufacturing in China now are in India, Bangladesh, and other third world countries. Only thing holding them to China is Contracts (K). The steel industry is reviving, and the cost of Steel, though a bit higher only adds $5.00 to the cost of a car, and the steel is of a much higher quality. Get a life people, or if you're to damn lazy at least check the facts or get off of L-dotter
2 people like this.

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