Collapsing California cliff
claims 3 lives along beach
Associated Press,
by
Staff
Original Article
Posted By: Ida Lou Pino,
8/3/2019 11:08:12 AM
A popular surfing beach was closed Saturday after a cliff collapsed, sending tons of sandstone onto beachgoers and killing three people. A 30-foot-long slab of the cliff plunged onto the sand near Grandview Beach north of San Diego. A KNSD-TV helicopter captured footage of beach chairs, towels, surf boards and beach toys strewn about the sand. Other beachgoers and lifeguards at a nearby tower scrambled to the towering pile of debris, which was estimated to weigh tens of thousands of pounds, to help dig out victims.
Reply 1 - Posted by:
earlybird 8/3/2019 11:11:58 AM (No. 141662)
Natural erosion. These cliffs collapse periodically. We learned to not set up our beach location at the base of the cliffs. Video showed that this family apparently didn’t know any better.
3 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
DVC 8/3/2019 11:35:42 AM (No. 141688)
Very soft rock, or very hard dirt, I can't really decide which. I'm sure a geologist could define the dividing line between the two I have been up and down these cliffs at some beaches not too far from this one near San Diego, but maybe the soil/rock is different there.
In any case, ALL cliffs, dirt, sandstone or granite periodically collapse.
I still clearly remember hiding behind a large boulder near the top on the Grand Teton as a 24" diam rock came hurtling down the steep couloir and bounced past at interstate highway speed where we were sheltering. Even on granite mountains, chunks break off under gravity's relentless pull.
Spending much time at the bottom of cliffs is dangerous.
2 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
simpleman 8/3/2019 12:36:25 PM (No. 141742)
I've got a bit of Tourette's on this one and don't want to lose my posting privileges ... At one point these AP virtue signalers suggest this is a rising tide, climate change kinda thing BS. Reality check: A) These cliffs are unstable, me and a date damn near went down (pun coulda been avoided here) at about O dark thirty AM on a collapse in the Eighties (I'll spare you the details but things were going well until we started grabbing onto ice plant) B) They have always been unstable, way before Donald Trump and even Ronald Reagan; pretty much since dirt was invented this dirt has been falling into the ocean C) This loss of life was avoidable. THE COASTAL COMMISSION SHOULD BE HELD DIRECTLY LIABLE HERE ... the nasty little secret is: Property taxes in Cali are vastly understated at 1.25% with supplementals we're paying close to 2.25% (somebody's gotta pay for our lowest-rated schools and hospitals and highest-paid "civil" "servants"). These homes on the bluffs begin at $3.5M (for a teardown) and go into the eight figures. COASTAL COMMISSION won't allow permanent stabilization by these homes owners on their private property. You can spend whatever it takes but after $2M into that effort, COASTAL COMMISSION has a lien that you will have to remove or resubmit the stabilization after 20 years. People died yesterday on a beach below a private parcel that had applied but could not afford these property right encroachments.
5 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
happywarrior 8/3/2019 12:54:23 PM (No. 141752)
At the very least the county should have a fence keeping people 20 to 30 feet away from the cliffs. Just like the fences that keep people off the dunes at the beach.
5 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
earlybird 8/3/2019 1:48:54 PM (No. 141779)
Re #2, I lived on Point Loma (San Diego) above Sunset Cliffs for 15 years. The cliffs are sandstone - all along that coastline. The geologist who took a look at this collapse described it as “sedimentary rock”… He appeared to make that judgment from looking at a video of the collapse area. The beach there is very narrow, as it is along much of that coast. I used to take our dog for walks on a small beach at the foot of Bermuda Avenue. I don’t know if it is still there. As that geologist explained, tidal action keeps changing the cliffs.
I noticed what appeared to be iceplant hanging over some of that cliff, including the areas immediately adjacent to the collapse. It used to be conventional wisdom that iceplant would aid in retaining a slope. No more. Shallow rooted, very heavy. Once the natural earth underneath begins to collapse the weight of the iceplant exacerbates the situation as the whole thing goes down, iceplant and all…
0 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
DVC 8/3/2019 3:19:31 PM (No. 141827)
#5, the area where I have been on the cliffs and beach the most is at Torry Pines. If that is sandstone...well, OK, I won't disagree, but I have to adjust my definition of 'sedimentary rock' down a good bit. Seems like kinda hard dirt to me, but I am no geologist. And this, as I said, may be very different material than Torrey Pines area.
In any case, they break down pretty easily and pretty steadily, staying close in is risky. Sad to have people killed, but it does seem like a few signs like "Stay back 75 feet from cliff base due to falling rocks" or something periodically would at least give folks who are inclined to pay attention to warnings ( not everyone, for sure) a shot at not getting mashed.
0 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
poliposter 8/3/2019 3:23:07 PM (No. 141828)
I have never been to California and am unfamiliar with these cliffs and have never heard of ice plant, which looks like moss in the photos. Does the earth tumble over like a Domino or does the collapse come from much higher up on the cliff? As someone who has never been to these cliffs, I would never have known not to hang out near one. And I have no understanding of what the supplementals are that #3 mentions.
1 person likes this.
Thanks for speaking up, #7. I live in Northern California, but I can answer two of your questions:
(1) Ice plant - This is a succulent ground-cover plant originally from South Africa, but is now everywhere in California, since Caltrans (our state department of transportation) covered the land next to highways with it in the mid-1960s. It spreads on its own and requires little water, since it stores water in its fleshy 'leaves'. If you crack one open, it looks like it is filled with ice. Hence the name.
(2) Supplementals - California enacted Proposition 13 back in 1978 to prevent skyrocketing property taxes from evicting the elderly from their homes. All levels of government whined interminably until "refinements" were passed that allowed localities to incrementally jack up property taxes with a 2/3 vote. So localities now charge fees for things that were once free. #3 is complaining (rightly) that .25% increments have been voted in his area 4 times already, plus the 1.25% base, causing him to pay 2.25% property tax not 1.25%.
I am unfamiliar with the cliffs that collapsed, but as someone born on the East Coast that came here, there are two unusual terrain-based problems to be on the lookout for in California: earthquakes and nearly-vertical cliffs. Gentle hills are (usually) fine, but never go close to nearly-vertical cliffs. They can collapse at any time.
1 person likes this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
earlybird 8/3/2019 4:09:21 PM (No. 141864)
As I suspected, sandstone IS sedimentary rock. During the 15 years I lived near the Point Loma cliffs, we called it sandstone…
What is Sandstone?
Sandstone is a sedimentary rock composed of sand-size grains of mineral, rock, or organic material. It also contains a cementing material that binds the sand grains together and may contain a matrix of silt- or clay-size particles that occupy the spaces between the sand grains.
https://geology.com/rocks/sandstone.shtml
Video of geologist Patrick Abbott describing the cliff collapse today in Leucadia:
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/on-air/as-seen-on/Patrick-Abbott-Explains-the-Cliff-Collapse-in-Leucadia_San-Diego-515213492.html
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Comments:
Clearly the result of Man-Made Cliff Change. All human activity must be stopped in order to save our cliffs.