Why We Need to Remember that War Is Hell
American Greatness,
by
Pedro Gonzalez
Original Article
Posted By: gundisalvus,
1/13/2020 9:33:43 AM
As British bombs fell on the German port city of Kiel, Karl Berchim scrambled with reckless self-abandon to usher as many women and children as he could into a schoolhouse that had been converted into a shelter. Berchim was a member of the Luftwaffe, the aerial warfare branch of the Wehrmacht during World War II.
Just as he secured a group of civilians in the bomb shelter, a massive piece of ordnance dropped by the Royal Air Force found its mark near Berchim, killing him instantly. Because of his actions and sacrifice, a little girl named Elise was spared obliteration.
Reply 1 - Posted by:
seamusm 1/13/2020 9:55:09 AM (No. 287181)
I don't think ANYONE is currently calling for a war against Iran let alone its civilians. But the author is right - HOW we win a war DOES matter.
3 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
lftrn97 1/13/2020 10:12:05 AM (No. 287217)
Sorry buy every German citizen who wasn't actively engaged in an effort to assassinate someone in the deranged Germn political/military hierarchy was an enemy combatant. Glad you are going to become a father but will you teach your child what cost and carnage Germany caused in the 20th Century. It is practically incalculable.
4 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
Ebenezer 1/13/2020 10:13:09 AM (No. 287220)
the writer of this article buys Joseph Gobbels' propaganda figure of 135,000 killed in the Dresden raid. In fact, the total killed was about 25,000--still horrific, but much lower than the cited figure. It makes me wonder if anything else in the article is also incorrect.
4 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
Ebenezer 1/13/2020 10:13:55 AM (No. 287222)
correction--Goebbels
3 people like this.
Throughout history we have seen demonstrations that the only way to end a war is for the price of continued war to be higher than the price of peace. Often times that means that the cost of war must be brought home to the civilian population.
5 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
BarryNo 1/13/2020 10:40:10 AM (No. 287259)
First you win.
Then you heal.
We ALL die, sooner or later. War is supposed to be hell. It is what makes it a solution you hesitate to enact.
Is Mr. Gonzalez denigrating and demonizing the service men who flew the bombers and dropped the bombs? Is he ignoring the fact that Hitler had no qualms about the people he killed in his quest for control and power?
Two wrongs don't make a right, you say? Letting evil win is unacceptable. Denigrating men who gave their lives fighting an enemy that put their people at risk first by seeking to kill and enslave others is evil.
Great Grandpa Wehrmacht may have been a hero - no question, but ask yourself this: He obviously saved his own daughter. Would he have tried to save a stranger? A jew? A prisoner of war they were holding?
We'll never know. He WAS a hero. But if you must go to war to fight for freedom, risking your life, then you must acknowledge there will be death, including death of civilians who are loved by those perpetuating and spreading that evil. Any one who sneers at or propes rules that put our side at greater risk are on the side of the enemy's, or simply damn fools who should experience being 'under the gun's first hand, before they start flapping their jaws.
3 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
bigfatslob 1/13/2020 11:29:10 AM (No. 287298)
Churchill decided to bomb cities not important to manufacturing but to kill civilians in hopes that the people stop Hitler from advancing the war but it wasn't going to be.
War is not fair or a nice thing but sometimes you have to be brutal to your enemies it's what makes them want peace.
Like an old US Army general once said "we are not here to die for our country we are here to make the enemy soldier die for his".
3 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
Vaquero45 1/13/2020 12:04:21 PM (No. 287332)
If the Germans didn't want to be firebombed, they shouldn't have declared war on the United States of America and tried to enslave the rest of Europe while killing 10 million innocent civilians.
Get over it, Pedro.
2 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
MDConservative 1/13/2020 12:05:31 PM (No. 287333)
"Total War" was the battle cry of the Nazi Reich after Stalingrad and the famous 1943 Goebbels Sportpalast speech: "The German people face the gravest demand of the war, namely of finding the determination to use all our resources to protect everything we have and everything we will need in the future. Total war is the demand of the hour...The question here is not one of method, but of the goal, namely eliminating the danger. The question is not whether the methods are good or bad, but whether they are successful. The National Socialist government is ready to use every means. We do not care if anyone objects."
What was their enemy to think? Like the gambler who goes all in, the German nation, including its people, played to win and proved willing to produce for victory. They played and lost. They continue to pay for that choice to this very day. All of Europe does.
1 person likes this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
GO3 1/13/2020 1:41:40 PM (No. 287462)
Sorry, pal. The courage of restraint doesn't work.
0 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
DVC 1/13/2020 2:11:33 PM (No. 287485)
The intent of the British night bombing of the cities was to make it impossible for the German war production to continue to turn our weapons and ammunition to support Hitler's evil armies. That is a valid need. That many people died is regrettable, but had Hitler not been defeated, the world would be a much, much worse place.
Beware those who would shrink from prosecuting a war because it is too horrible to kill the enemy and his civilian population. The alternative often is death or enslavement yourself. Often times both choices are less than ideal, and one must choose the one which is least bad.
1 person likes this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
DVC 1/13/2020 4:35:15 PM (No. 287606)
#12, spare me your phony superiority. War IS hell, and sometimes bad things have to be done, even if it is not something that one would choose if there were better options. Pretending that there are always easier and more wonderful choices available is childish nonsense. Sometimes all choices are not what you would like to do. Least bad is the best available.
Failing to do things which you might not like can mean YOUR OWN children and family will die or be enslaved. I won't hesitate to put my own family members ahead of ANYONE who is aiding in threatening them.
2 people like this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
jeffkinnh 1/13/2020 6:00:28 PM (No. 287667)
How about the millions killed when we fail to go to war to stop oppressive regimes. We did not fight with the USSR when Stalin killed millions. Mao's policies and actions lead to the deaths of 10s of millions. Sometimes NO war is hell.
The Luftwaffe rained death on Europe. I'm sure many of the pilots had families and were good to them. We fought a war because 6 million Jews were slaughtered and Europe was enslaved by the German people. They EARNED the reprisal they got.
It is enormously naive to simplify deaths in a war to be equivalent by both sides. Both the Axis and Allies killed many people in the war. The Axis was vicious and cruel and murdered people before a war was started. The war started as response to the actions of cruel and evil men. The Luftwaffe supported them and shared the responsibility for their actions. When WE fought, we did it to liberate people from occupation, torture and death. It was an ugly but NECESSARY business.
2 people like this.
Reply 14 - Posted by:
cor-vet 1/13/2020 7:44:55 PM (No. 287721)
I guess the writer didn't consider that the Luftwaffe bombed England and Englands non military cities incessantly, with no regard for civilian casualties. A lot of English children were killed in those bombing raids. How many French and Belgium civilians and children were killed during Hitlers march across Europe? Two wrongs don't make a right, but to end a war, you do what you have to do! The 2 atom bombs on Japan is an example. How many millions would have died ending that war, had we not dropped the atom bombs, which killed many civilians?
2 people like this.
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We can learn from our past without being shamed by it. Americans have always thought of themselves as exceptional, as better than our enemies.