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Zelenskyy and EU Leaders Release Official
Position and Joint Statement Following
Berlin Negotiations – USA Did Not Sign

Original Article

Posted By: earlybird, 12/17/2025 11:43:21 AM

Before getting to the details as released for media consumption, three facets deserve emphasis. (1) The primary objective of Ukraine/EU has been a publicity campaign to retain influence and support. (2) U.S. Emissaries Witkoff and Kushner are silent on the announced negotiated result. (3) Ukraine’s lead negotiator Rustem Umerov notes, “There is a lot of noise and anonymous speculation in the media right now. Please don’t fall for rumors and provocations. The American team led by Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner are working extremely constructively to help Ukraine find a way to a peace agreement that lasts.” I would overlay that within the weeks of discussions it is easy to spot distance

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Reply 1 - Posted by: john56 12/17/2025 12:13:42 PM (No. 2042531)
Maybe I'm not the brightest boy on this celestial ball, but it sounds like our European friends are standing behind the USA in guaranteeing any Ukranian/Russian peace deal. They're going to be standing far, far behind us, holding our coats, and pocketing as much loot as they can. Maybe Putin could be the most honest guy in this mess (besides Trump, of course).
25 people like this.

Reply 2 - Posted by: franco 12/17/2025 12:36:19 PM (No. 2042542)
I've really had it with Sundance and his pro-Putin views. If he thinks Russia is such a great place to be, why doesn't he move there? The ability of this guy to pull narratives from his posterior and present them as fact is exceeded, in my experience, by only one person: (Retired) Col. Douglas MacGregor, who has been saying since day 1 of the invasion that Russia would win the war in a few days or weeks.
11 people like this.

Reply 3 - Posted by: voxpopuli 12/17/2025 12:46:25 PM (No. 2042546)
this was simple anything the EU is FOR, i'm AGAINST
19 people like this.

Reply 4 - Posted by: DVC 12/17/2025 12:49:54 PM (No. 2042548)
When I see Sundance writing on Ukraine, I no longer bother. I don't need any more Putin propaganda.
10 people like this.

Reply 5 - Posted by: Anaverageguy 12/17/2025 1:06:57 PM (No. 2042551)
I think we should focus on our hemisphere and let the EU deal with their neighborhood. Zelinsky is just a shorter version of Putin....
10 people like this.

Reply 6 - Posted by: earlybird 12/17/2025 2:34:50 PM (No. 2042578)
Having read Sundance for dedades on a myriad of submerse, I have never seen him to be a Russian peopagandist nor have I seen any evidence presented to substantiate those slurs Like many of us,SD doesn't seem to view Zelensky as an upright guy. If Z were upright,,if he cared about his country's people, he would stop behaving like a dictator and call for an election. It's high time that he frees his people.
24 people like this.

Reply 7 - Posted by: earlybird 12/17/2025 2:37:16 PM (No. 2042580)
In #6 a myriad of submerse should say "a myriad of subjects"
6 people like this.

Reply 8 - Posted by: Citoyen 12/17/2025 3:11:35 PM (No. 2042589)
I will give Sundance credit for a thoughtful and thorough explanation of the attempt to end this horrible war. It is obvious that of the two combatants he prefers Russia to Ukraine. One scenario he points to and deplores makes that quite clear. Sundance writes that the European Union plans to "confiscate" the Russian sovereign wealth fund, to be used to rebuild the Ukraine that Russia has devastated. Sundance is none too happy with this, stating that the fund is not Putin's but is owned by the people of Russia through their investments into it. Tough. Russia started this war and its citizens support overwhelmingly the man who is conducting it. Does Sundance advocate that the European Union's members finance the rebuild, or even worse, that our country coughs up the cash? FTA: [¹There’s also a better than average likelihood, Zelenskyy is in alignment with a genuine EU/Nazi mindset. Which, of course, was the reason Obama/DoS selected him in the first place.] The above is a footnote to a warning Sundance delivers to the Trump Administration that Zelensky is manipulating our President and his team, as if they are babes in the wood. Worse is the Putin issued Nazi slur that everyone, except perhaps Sundance, recognizes was rancid baloney.
5 people like this.

Reply 9 - Posted by: voxpopuli 12/17/2025 3:29:47 PM (No. 2042594)
to go a little further with #8 "To the issue of permanent confiscation of a captured sovereign wealth fund. Think about the ramifications here, not just to Russia but to the international monetary system. The Russian sovereign wealth fund is not the money of Vladimir Putin; it is the investment fund belonging to the people of Russia. This precedent, if carried out, means all nations with sovereign wealth funds (Japan, Asia countries, Saudi Arabia, et al) will now look upon those funds as “at risk” investments forever. If the U.S/EU assembly can simply confiscate the EU/USD-based wealth of a sovereign nation, then all nations are at risk of a similar outcome based on the ideological alignment of the control group. Western asset holdings will forever be viewed through this political prism." THINK! they could just be PRACTICING with Russia.. next step? go after all those Trump "climate deniers" and try to steal OUR money for their failing systems..
8 people like this.

Reply 10 - Posted by: danu 12/17/2025 4:38:26 PM (No. 2042611)
the vile 'team toad' smell money. toodles. off to find my disinfectants
2 people like this.

Reply 11 - Posted by: earlybird 12/17/2025 4:42:48 PM (No. 2042615)
Look up "Svoboda". https://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-mccain-far-right-svoboda-anti-semitic-protests
7 people like this.

Reply 12 - Posted by: earlybird 12/17/2025 4:48:11 PM (No. 2042618)
"Understand National Socialism, its ideological roots, and historical impact. Learn about the principles and actions of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP), commonly known as the Nazi Party." https://ultimatelexicon.com/definitions/n/national-socialism/
5 people like this.

Reply 13 - Posted by: Jesuslover54 12/17/2025 5:06:22 PM (No. 2042621)
If the EU and Selectednsky want a European world war they can have it, but we're not sending troops and we're not paying.
8 people like this.

Reply 14 - Posted by: earlybird 12/17/2025 5:10:48 PM (No. 2042623)
"Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't Not acknowledging this threat means that little is being done to guard against it" https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946 I didn't recall seeing that Putin claimed his invasion was to "denazify" Ukraine.
6 people like this.

Reply 15 - Posted by: franco 12/17/2025 6:42:53 PM (No. 2042637)
#14: I suggest you expand your universe of reading materials. Start with this: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/01/27/putin-repeats-ukraine-nazi-claims-at-leningrad-siege-memorial-a83877 BTW, I don't know many people that support Ukraine who claim that Zelensky is an angel. Let's stipulate he's corrupt. I contend that Putin is more corrupt, and I give you the history of his reign over the Russian Federation as evidence. How does a mid-level KGB puke attain a net worth of $200 billion? Only in a feudal kleptocracy. That's what Russia is, and that's what Ukrainians don't want to have visited upon them... again. Assuming the war ends favorably for them, they will have control of their future. If it doesn't, then the feudal Suzerian Lord Vlad will. And that future is guaranteed to be bleak. Most Americans used to give a damn about self-determination for people in other countries. During the Cold War, we gave a pragmatic nod to dictators who were aligned with us, but that never meant that we consigned those people to that kind of existence permanently. Similarly, we never signed on to the idea that people caught involuntarily behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War were consigned to that existence permanently. Sundance appears to be the odd duck who didn't give a damn either way. And you appear to be on his page.
4 people like this.

Reply 16 - Posted by: earlybird 12/17/2025 7:01:50 PM (No. 2042640)
No one has avused me of being pro-Russian. I don't believe that being anti-Zelensky signifies that one is pro-pain/pro-Russian. Ukraine does not have self-determination unitil they can speak openly without being imprisoned and can hold a national election for its leader, Things Z has been dictatorally against
8 people like this.

Reply 17 - Posted by: earlybird 12/17/2025 7:06:17 PM (No. 2042642)
Correction: that one is pro-Putin/pro-Russian.
4 people like this.

Reply 18 - Posted by: Strike3 12/18/2025 7:44:10 AM (No. 2042754)
There is only one solution to this never-ending war between two stubborn thugs who have nothing to lose except tens of thousands of their citizens. End it by letting Russia have their way by acquiring the territory in dispute, then squeeze them economically to make the victory non-profitable. The intention of the EU is to provoke a wider war and then shame the US into saving their bacon - again. We must not fall for it.
5 people like this.

Reply 19 - Posted by: kdog 12/18/2025 9:03:59 AM (No. 2042789)
Clearly there is a lot the EU is looking for in this. "Peace" in Ukraine doesn't seem high on the list.
6 people like this.

Reply 20 - Posted by: NotaBene 12/18/2025 12:54:06 PM (No. 2042904)
It’s our War and we can walk away if we want to.
1 person likes this.

Reply 21 - Posted by: chance_232 12/18/2025 12:58:29 PM (No. 2042906)
As an aside, Im more worried about the nazis in US universities masquerading as anti-facists. They may not call themselves nazis, but they are pro-socialist, anti-capitalist, anti-semetic, anti-white, anti-western, anti-christian etc etc. And these people are infesting the US and Europe.
3 people like this.

Reply 22 - Posted by: Alecto2 12/18/2025 1:04:24 PM (No. 2042909)
Putin's error. He ignored his neocons at the very outset and didn't nuke Kiev. Would have saved so much trouble. However, blame can also be laid at our door. The US allowed too many Nazi Banderites into the country after WW2 and now we have to listen to their offspring spread their hate and bile.
2 people like this.

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