Methodist Church closer to
official split over LGBTQ issues
Washington Times,
by
Christopher Vondracek
Original Article
Posted By: Ribicon,
8/17/2019 11:00:18 AM
The United Methodist Church would maintain neighborliness, but would split into separate wings, in the aftermath of disagreements over LGBTQ rights in the church, according to a blueprint released by church leaders this week. In a statement announcing the “Indianapolis Plan,” the Methodist Church’s news service called the schism on LGTBQ issues “irreconcilable” but offered a plan for the church and its 12 million worldwide members that roughly splits the church into sectarian denominations, while maintaining “legal continuation” of the church.(Snip) The church would split into a centrist/progressive wing, which would maintain the church’s legal identity and allow for ordination and marriage
Reply 1 - Posted by:
montwoodcliff 8/17/2019 11:07:50 AM (No. 154802)
One side came to its senses.
22 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
jlw509 8/17/2019 11:10:45 AM (No. 154806)
"... in the aftermath of disagreements over LGBTQ rights in the church.."
Why do they even frame it it that way? It makes it sounds as if the Church is expected to be about something other than the relationship between God and the needing human heart: God and His Law and His love for suffering, erring people.
How about"... in the aftermath of disagreements about Biblical fidelity and the lasting authority of God's laws concerning sex and marriage"?
39 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
valinva 8/17/2019 11:18:25 AM (No. 154811)
One of the Wings of the church will be named Biblical Methodist Church and the other will be named Apostate Methodist Church.
30 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
Northcross 8/17/2019 11:20:46 AM (No. 154813)
So one side of the UMC has declared itself superior to the Creator on matters of sin, sexuality, and church leadership. Warning: That position is a very risky one.
34 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
DARling 8/17/2019 11:23:47 AM (No. 154816)
I am a baptized Methodist but haven't been to church in years. I prefer to open up the Bible and find instant inspiration. My local church went too SJW for my taste a few years back.
Churches are dying because they are giving up their structure and standards. If anything goes because it is now legal, rather than moral, then religion has no place. Water down the message and you take away the reasons for even going to church. Being the "cool kid" has done organized religion no favors.
44 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
Submariner 8/17/2019 11:29:04 AM (No. 154818)
#2, very well said. Rarely, if ever, does the media touch the Biblical issue. It is always presented in terms of the rights of the so-called oppressed homosexual community, the ones with the most powerful lobby in the Federal government and with a stranglehold on academia and the media. Satan began to attack the Church in the beginning. The Methodists and other mainline denominations veered off course 100 years ago.
24 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
zephyrgirl 8/17/2019 11:42:58 AM (No. 154832)
Mainstream churches are dying because they went full SJW and focused less on the Bible and faith, and more on liberal politics. The aim of the LGTBQ
activists is to either destroy Christianity or make it meaningless. Like #5, I haven't been a regular church attendee in years. I get more out of my neighborhood Bible study group than on those rare occasions when I attend church. That group has brought me back to Jesus Christ.
29 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
Smart11344 8/17/2019 11:51:21 AM (No. 154836)
The Methodists are a religion? Who knew.
18 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
AGGW 8/17/2019 12:00:39 PM (No. 154841)
Yes, I like #2’s post, especially the
re-wording of the headline. I may use that sometime myself if he doesn’t object.
8 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
BeatleJeff 8/17/2019 12:14:29 PM (No. 154850)
If this actually takes place, I'm pretty certain which side my congregation would take, which would mean I would need to find a new church.
11 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
earlybird 8/17/2019 12:30:05 PM (No. 154868)
A church is a congregation of those who view their religion similarly. When they are lead to a place they cannot go, they leave.
13 people like this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
udanja99 8/17/2019 12:30:16 PM (No. 154869)
12 million members worldwide? That’s pathetic and a pretty good indication of how many members they have lost due to their leftist anti-Biblical agenda.
18 people like this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
red1066 8/17/2019 12:33:16 PM (No. 154873)
I haven't been to a traditional Methodist service in decades. I miss it. I've gone instead to what at times comes close, but the service is more closely related to that of being Catholic. It's fine, and there are certainly parts of the service that are familiar, just not the same. I think what I really miss, is the pastor I grew up with. He was tall with a deep voice that commanded attention. Not in an evangelical way, just someone who spoke to YOU. When he gave a sermon, it was difficult not to listen.
8 people like this.
Reply 14 - Posted by:
BarryNo 8/17/2019 12:45:49 PM (No. 154883)
There should be a complete split. The control is held by the LGBTQ squad, and the will use the leverage to further destroy traditional morality.
'Get thee behind me, Satan..."
20 people like this.
Reply 15 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/17/2019 1:01:49 PM (No. 154895)
#5,#7,#10,#13- Although conscientious reading of Scripture within our homes is commendable and very important, gathering to hear His Word preached, receive the Sacraments, offer prayers, sing, and give thanks are what God require of Christians. Scripture requires church attendance: “And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.” (Hebrews 10:24-25)
There is at least one evangelical denomination that, thankfully, still adheres to Scripture as the inerrant Word of God and, as a believer, would encourage church attendance—in tribute to our triune God, in personal need for absolution, encouragement, and as loving stewards of His give of life and His blessings upon us.
16 people like this.
Reply 16 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/17/2019 1:06:13 PM (No. 154901)
#15/Typo – Should read: “...His give gift of life and His blessings upon us.”
4 people like this.
Reply 17 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/17/2019 1:07:48 PM (No. 154903)
#15,#16/Typos/MeaCulpa – Should read: “...His gift of life and His blessings upon us.”
5 people like this.
Reply 18 - Posted by:
tennisbum 8/17/2019 1:19:17 PM (No. 154910)
Many of the so-called Christian denominations now including the Methodists have long ago abandoned any semblance of adhering to biblical principles and teachings. The Bible is no longer relevant in their minds. Where do theses pastors come from, what school of theology did they attend? The slippery slope has ceased to exist. It is full tilt "anything goes, there are no standards or values, no such thing as sin because it is all relative to how you feel." I hope the traditional Methodist church will adopt a new name to separate itself from the Church of What's Happening Now"
9 people like this.
Reply 19 - Posted by:
Timber Queen 8/17/2019 1:33:55 PM (No. 154914)
#6 - "Satan began to attack the Church in the beginning."
Satan tempted Christ in the desert and Jesus gave us our example in times of temptation; do not dialog with the devil who also quotes Scripture. Satan then plied his trade with Peter's thrice denial and Judas's kiss. Christ knew Satan would always attack His flock and promised us the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. Gates are a defensive position. We will prevail on offense and wither on defense.
"The Methodists and other mainline denominations veered off course 100 years ago."
They veered off course 500 years ago. As a Catholic, the Reformation was a catastrophe for Christianity. While Luther had legitimate concerns, he should have stayed within the Church, where they were addressed at the Council of Trent. Lutheranism didn’t last 12 years before the first split. His grave error was the personal interpretation of the Bible, separating Scripture from the Sacred Tradition recorded by the immediate disciples of the Apostles, the Church Fathers. It was this Sacred Tradition that informed the selection of writings that became The Bible. There are many references in the Gospels testifying that Christ would teach the meaning of the parables to the Apostles after the crowds left. What other teachings of Christ were not recorded in the Gospels or Epistles? We know those teachings from the writings of the Church Fathers. Separating oneself from the wisdom of the first century is like trying to navigate without a sextant.
Despite its centuries of scandals, the Catholic Church still upholds all teachings regarding homosexuality, the Sacrament of Marriage and the sanctity of life. We also have Christ in the Eucharist. Come home to Rome.
12 people like this.
Reply 20 - Posted by:
JHHolliday 8/17/2019 1:45:04 PM (No. 154917)
My Methodist church is still quite conservative. Maybe because it's in a small southern town. They won't be going to the 'progressive' side. I would prefer a complete split....two separate entities entirely and each go their own way. The current group of bishops mostly lean left and aggressively lobbied for the 'One Church' idea over the traditional. If we are still attached to these bishops in any way, they will attempt to do exactly what OP said. It's not only the 'social justice' malarky that the mainstream churches have been pushing that has lost them so many members. It's the fact that the SJW pastors are mostly secular believers. They really don't believe in the one true 'product' that the Christian churches have to sell...eternal life. Without that faith, all you have is a social club and it's why the evangelical churches have been growing.
6 people like this.
Reply 21 - Posted by:
Aubreyesque 8/17/2019 2:01:56 PM (No. 154922)
This is what the Episcopal Church went through back in the 70s. Now there is the Anglican Catholic Church, recalling its roots in the Church as it existed before the Great Schism. No pope, just an Archbishop. No female priests, only Apostolic Succession. No LBGTQ/SJW heresies.
We are doing just fine and growing.
5 people like this.
The first attacking on man came in the garden with “God didn’t say that”.
Same old method, and it is still working!
9 people like this.
Reply 23 - Posted by:
Strike3 8/17/2019 3:18:38 PM (No. 154985)
The progressive side of the church will fit into a dozen pews in some old one-story country church. We are finding that the LGBTQ crowd has big, loud mouths but they aren't much of a crowd.
6 people like this.
Reply 24 - Posted by:
lakerman1 8/17/2019 3:22:02 PM (No. 154987)
#20, the Catholic Church left Luther - Luther didn't leave the Catholic Church.
9 people like this.
Reply 25 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/17/2019 3:41:04 PM (No. 154996)
#20- With all due respect, the unrelenting denunciation of Martin Luther and the Reformation has been tolerated out of respect for the Judeo-Christian beliefs of others; however, that denunciation has become tiresome and offensive--it is for God to judge Martin Luther and every other mortal born on the face of this earth. God used a variety of individuals to bring about His will on earth, and it may be that God chose Martin Luther to bring about the Reformation. For many believers, other Judeo-Christian denominations are considered as different flowers, each with its own fragrance to one God. Aside from egregious violations of Scripture, the disagreements about doctrine within various churches should adhere to Scripture’s admonition, “judge not.” (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:37, James 4:11-12) We may be considered by some as “deplorable” Lutherans, but we "deplorables" believe Martin Luther’s conviction that Scripture is, without question, the inerrant Word of God. (2 Timothy 3:16-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21), and Lutherans have Christ in the Eucharist.
5 people like this.
Reply 26 - Posted by:
NorthernDog 8/17/2019 3:54:18 PM (No. 155003)
I liked the Methodist church I was raised in. I don't recall political issues every being part of the doctrine or being discussed. It was just basic Christianity. But that was decades ago and that church no longer exists.
3 people like this.
Reply 27 - Posted by:
DVC 8/17/2019 4:23:32 PM (No. 155032)
Excellent to hear. I was raised Methodist haven't been associated for a long time after their disastrous changes to extreme leftists in many cases. I'd like to find a good, old fashioned Methodist church.
2 people like this.
Reply 28 - Posted by:
Lawsy0 8/17/2019 7:03:48 PM (No. 155137)
Somebody tell the United Methodist Church that their side of the boat is sinking.
3 people like this.
Reply 29 - Posted by:
Lawsy0 8/17/2019 7:04:49 PM (No. 155138)
Someone please tell the United Methodist Church that their side of the boat is sinking.
0 people like this.
Reply 30 - Posted by:
padiva 8/17/2019 9:03:39 PM (No. 155176)
I was raised in the Methodist church. I even went to a (liberal) Methodist college. I saw the light 40+ years ago.
I've been part of Bible-preaching churches since then.
Check which seminary the pastor/leadership attended.
2 people like this.
Like the Democrat Party, I didn't leave the church, they left me. I live my faith in the community every day.
I asked a Methodist minister about gays and the church split and he responded There are six religions, why us?
Anybody else remember a FUMC bishop going to Congress to speak on behalf of an illegal who murdered an American?
1 person likes this.
Reply 32 - Posted by:
Timber Queen 8/18/2019 4:01:04 PM (No. 155693)
#28 - With all due respect to my sister in Christ, I did not call you “deplorable” nor did I “denounce” Luther. I recognized he had legitimate concerns about human corruption and gave my opinion that he should have stayed in the Church to effect those reforms, which indeed eventually happened.
This discussion is about the LGBT split happening within the Methodist community, as well as in all the mainline Protestant denominations. Even simple Bible based churches suffer splits if half the congregation doesn’t agree with the pastor’s interpretation of Scripture. All of this division is the direct result of personal interpretation of The Bible. Yes, Scripture is the inerrant Word of God, but the problem comes in with fallible human reading without context or full understanding. Why is the “conservative” interpretation right and the “progressive” wrong? Luther’s interpretation, Wesley’s, or your own? How can you correct the gross error in the legitimizing of homosexuality when it is based on someone else’s personal interpretation? Under what authority do you stand?
The Catholic Church is a human organization with a Divine Mission. Despite the Borgia popes, schisms and heresies, the Deposit of Faith is no different today than it was 2,000 years ago. Indeed, the Holy Spirit guides Christ’s Church. In every thread about the scandals and problems with the earthly Church our Protestant friends never hesitate to urge Catholics to abandon the Ancient Faith. I see no reason why I cannot urge my Protestant brothers and sisters to come home to Rome.
May the Peace of Christ be with you.
2 people like this.
Reply 33 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/19/2019 1:15:54 PM (No. 156296)
#35- Shalom.
Deplorables - Granted, the “deplorable” accusation was not made; however, frequent criticisms of Martin Luther and “his interpretation” of Scripture, plus the alleged “disaster” of the Reformation, lends itself to the perception by Lutherans as a disgraceful/deplorable action thereby rendering Lutherans “deplorables.”
LGBT Methodist Community, Mainline Protestant Denominations Discussion – Understood.
Scripture, Pastor’s Interpretation, Fallible Human Reading – In agreement; however, becoming a LCMS pastor involves an undergraduate degree from an accredited college/university, three years of on-campus study, and a one-year vicarage, so the “interpretation” of Scripture by LCMS Lutheran pastors is not without the merits of having studied Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and Latin—much like Catholic priests.
Scripture, Legitimitizing Homosexuality – If that rhetorical question is directed to Lutherans, the answer needs to be made by the liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) which does not represent LCMS or WELS (Lutheran Synods).
[Continued]
1 person likes this.
Reply 34 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/19/2019 1:17:07 PM (No. 156297)
[Continued]
Holy Spirit, Catholic Church, Divine Mission – Referencing Matthew 16:13-20, because of Peter’s confession that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared that, upon this rock, the CONFESSION of Peter, He would build his Church. The Church was not built upon the authority of a man; it was built upon the ministry of the CONFESSION Peter made. On that basis, it would seem that all Judeo-Christian Churches are on a Divine Mission.
Urging Catholics to Abandon the Ancient Faith – With regard to #15, no such urging was written or intended, simply an evangelical protestant responding to a Methodist protestant. One profound difference, however, is the heretofore repeated posts critical of Martin Luther and his “influence” because, for this writer, there has never been any criticism of Catholicism or the papacy.
[Continued]
1 person likes this.
Reply 35 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/19/2019 1:18:07 PM (No. 156299)
[Continued]
Martin Luther – Catholic scholar, Jerome, created a Latin version of the Bible; Martin Luther translated the Latin Bible into the German language--he did not “interpret” the Bible. Martin Luther believed “...that God’s Word is clear and should be published for all to read. It wasn’t any riskier than God sending His Son into the world. No matter how dark the world or our hearts are, ‘the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it (John 1:5), nor could it.’” He believed that “...the translation must speak as clearly as the original text, because the text shines brightly to illuminate the hearts of sinful men.”
May the Peace of Christ be with you.
1 person likes this.
Reply 36 - Posted by:
Timber Queen 8/19/2019 9:46:41 PM (No. 156741)
#36-38 - My dear friend, my intention was not to torment you or target Lutherans specifically. From your writings and defense of the faith I believe you love Jesus and know Him. Obviously, you are committed to the teachings of your beloved Lutheran church and Holy Scripture. I truly respect you and love you as a sister in Christ.
My observations were regarding the never-ending splits within Protestantism, and the question regarding homosexuality was for yourself and the wider non-Catholic Christian community. I am fully aware of the rigorous theological training undertaken by Lutheran ministers, but I am also aware that anyone “who feels the Spirit” can open a store front church and call themselves a pastor.
Martin Luther was prescient in seeing the power of the printing press to bring Holy Scripture into the hands of the faithful, as well as the corrupt practices that had seeped into the clergy. Others within the Church also saw the potential of the press and the corruption. Luther had many allies, even within the Magisterium, until he promulgated the personal interpretation of The Bible divorced from the wisdom of Sacred Tradition.
It was only 12 years after Luther left the Church that the first split occurred. If Luther can have the Holy Spirit guide him, why not someone else? It wasn’t long before there were Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, Puritans and Quakers; splits and more splits down until today where there are tens of thousands of “denominations” or Christians going it alone at home. As you have explained to me, even Lutheranism has four synods that don’t agree on everything. The problem is lack of authority when Scripture is open to interpretation.
1 person likes this.
Reply 37 - Posted by:
Timber Queen 8/19/2019 9:48:34 PM (No. 156742)
What authority does any Protestant denomination have to say the acceptance of homosexuality is wrong, and those that teach so can no longer claim our name? The Episcopalians could not, nor the Lutherans, nor now the Methodists.
I have often referred you to John 17, specifically verses 20-21. “I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.”
How can the world believe the Father sent Jesus if Christians are not one in their beliefs? This is why I think the last 500 years proves the wisdom of the Catholic Church staying true to the teachings of the Apostles and Church Fathers. The Catholic Church still upholds, wholly and complete, all aspects of Christian morality under attack in our current day. It has taught these truths for 2,000 years, defending them against schisms, heresies and horrible human corruption. Worldly temptations and falls experienced by our Protestant brethren as well. The difference is the Sacred Tradition, no matter how corrupt the papacy, clergy or faithful, no one has dared change doctrine. They have no authority to do so.
God bless you and yours.
2 people like this.
Reply 38 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/22/2019 10:40:50 PM (No. 159604)
#39,#40- Shalom. Apology for tardy response due to medical issues.
- “My observations ... never-ending SPLITS within Protestantism, and the question regarding HOMOSEXUALITY was for yourself... , ANYONE “who feels the Spirit” can open a store front church and call themselves a pastor.” / Splits, to be answered later. Homosexuality: Unequivocally, my belief in Scripture being the inerrant Word of God, homosexuality is a sin; only God will judge them. Anyone: Agree, except, for the most part, mainline denominations, but do have profound differences with some of them.
- “Luther had many allies, ...until he promulgated the personal interpretation of The Bible divorced from the wisdom of SACRED TRADITION.” / Martin Luther’s personal interpretation was based on Scripture interpreting Scripture. Early church fathers (Clement of Alexandria, Trenaeus, Tertullian) appealed to oral tradition but warned against setting too high a value on it; the “Council of Trent placed tradition on a level with Scripture.” “Jesus and the apostles constantly appealed to the Bible as the final court of appeal. This they often did by the introductory phrase, ‘It is WRITTEN,’ which is repeated some 90 times in the New Testament." ---Continued---
0 people like this.
Reply 39 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/22/2019 10:42:21 PM (No. 159606)
---Continued--- From Moses through the New Testament, God made clear “...that His revelation be preserved in Scripture,... To claim that the apostles did not WRITE DOWN all God’s revelation to them is to claim that they were not obedient to their prophetic commission not to subtract a word from what God revealed to them.”
- “If Luther can have the HOLY SPIRIT guide him, why not someone else?” / Because Jerome appears to have been guided by the Holy Spirit in translating most of the Bible into Latin (Vulgate), it may be that God chosen Martin Luther to translate the Bible into German, and perhaps God chose others as well. May God’s will be done.
- “The problem is LACK OF AUTHORITY when SCRIPTURE is open to interpretation.” / Agree, however, there is One Authority and that is Scripture interprets Scripture. “All Scripture is breathed out by God...” (2 Timothy 3:16-17) “...knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.” (2 Peter 1:20-21) ---Continued---
0 people like this.
Reply 40 - Posted by:
Harlowe 8/22/2019 10:43:47 PM (No. 159607)
---Continued--- - “What AUTHORITY does any Protestant denomination have to say...HOMOSEXUALITY...” / One Authority, God. Scripture, God’s Word, states that homosexuality is an abomination/sin: Genesis19:5, Leviticus18:22; 20-13, Deuteronomy22:5;23:18, Judges9:22-23, Romans1:26-27, 1Corinthians6:9-10, 2Peter6-11, Jude1:6-8, Revelation21:5-8;22:14-15. Denominations refusing to accept what is written in Scripture, as it is written, are rejecting God’s Word.
- “How can the world believe the Father sent JESUS...one beliefs? -- SPLITS” / It is written, “There is the Spirit of God, and the spirit of antichrist. There are people who are of the world, and others who are of God. There is truth, and there is falsehood.” Satan is cunning, sending out false prophets, preachers looking good, sounding good, but “It is camouflaged corruption.” True believers hold fast to what is written in Scripture and must exclude all false teachings that go against them: “Either Christ is God in the flesh, or He is not.” There can be only one Truth as revealed in Holy Scriptures. That belief constitutes “one belief.” Without that “one belief,” there are splits in Protestantism.
God bless you and yours. With respect and God’s love, your sister in Christ.
1 person likes this.
Comments:
They've only destroyed part of a church, but rest assured they'll bully the traditional side into compliance by branding them homophobes, backward bigots, etc. That's why they're called progressives.