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Inside Washington’s about-face on sending
tanks to Ukraine

Original Article

Posted By: Dreadnought, 1/26/2023 2:10:50 AM

In the weeks after Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s Christmastime visit to Washington, U.S., German and other European leaders became locked in an increasingly ugly t-for-tat over whether to send tanks to Ukraine. As language got heated behind the scenes, neither the U.S. nor Germany would budge — even as the standoff exposed a rare breach between two of Kyiv’s biggest backers. Ultimately, President Joe Biden decided it was more important to show a unified front and send the tanks — a move that could go down as one of the most consequential decisions in the multinational effort to arm Ukraine. Biden concluded it was important to move in lockstep with an ally,

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W/LaraSeligman, Paul Mcleary, Hans Von Der Buchard, Matthew Karnitschnig and Suzanne Lynch.

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Reply 1 - Posted by: DVC 1/26/2023 2:35:06 AM (No. 1387431)
"Abrams tanks" are not one thing. Early model M1s have the same old rifed barrel 105mm gun as was used in the upgraded M48 Patton tanks in the middle 1970s. Modern M1A2SEPv4 uses a 120mm smoothbore gun, far faster, more accurate and hard hitting than the old 105s. And the sights are 1980 vintage computer tech....like a very early model IBM-PC. The armor is far less capable, uses very different materials and technology. Only the basic hull internal structure and the suspension and engine are pretty much the same, although the engine is upgraded, too. There are over 2000 old M1 tanks in long term storage, and they will probably never be converted to the M1A3SEPv4 spec....it costs to replace the turret, gun, all the electronics, convert all the electronics to modern digital form is huge. I am assuming that they will send some of the older model M1 tanks, which we will never use. Remember.....we've built over 10,000 of them and sold them to many countries, including Egypt and Saudi Arabia....so imagining that we are giving away secrets that the Russians could get from bribing an Egyptian or two is silly. We aren't giving them enough of them, IMO. We have about 2,300 sitting in surplus storage according to online sources. We are very unlikely to ever convert them to the current Army models, we don't need them, and it is VERY expensive to upgrade. Letting Ukraine use them to defend their country is a good thing. Like giving you old PC or TV to Goodwill....let someone else get some use out of it, rather than just put it into the recycler.
13 people like this.

Reply 2 - Posted by: MrDeplorable 1/26/2023 2:39:51 AM (No. 1387436)
#1, great comment and a tip o’ the hat to a fellow military man, even if you are a tanker.
4 people like this.

Reply 3 - Posted by: jayjeti 1/26/2023 3:50:05 AM (No. 1387457)
The Biden Administration should push for negotiations to reach a peace agreement, but they are not interested in that, and do nothing to seek a peace agreement, and Europe (NATO) look to Washington to lead them. Russia avoided attacking infrastructure for a long time. People had power, cells phones, etc. Russia has changed on that and things are going to go very badly for the Ukrainians as this drags on. Sending military equipment will not stop the inevitable if this war drags on.
8 people like this.

Reply 4 - Posted by: stablemoney 1/26/2023 5:58:19 AM (No. 1387481)
Biden, Miley, and Austin will abandon the tanks, just like they did in Afghanistan. Ukraine will sell them to Russia.
10 people like this.

Reply 5 - Posted by: TCloud 1/26/2023 7:36:33 AM (No. 1387520)
Very cheap Lancet suicide drone magnets if they ever cross that border from Poland. Poland , what is it with you? Historically inclined to always be *stepping in it*!
1 person likes this.

Reply 6 - Posted by: Lawsy0 1/26/2023 7:59:04 AM (No. 1387543)
Same old money laundering only now it'll be on tank tracks. Who did biden vow to help? Putin or Zelenskyy. It's for sure FJB never intended to help the United States, his homeland of record.
6 people like this.

Reply 7 - Posted by: Bur Oak 1/26/2023 8:01:20 AM (No. 1387545)
We are treading along on the path to war in an area where we have little to no national interest. Does anyone remember Vietnam or Afghanistan?
10 people like this.

Reply 8 - Posted by: Mofongo 1/26/2023 8:12:15 AM (No. 1387555)
#1 - Giving tanks to Russia’s enemy makes us what? Is that really what you want? Why are you desperate for enemies?
6 people like this.

Reply 9 - Posted by: marbles 1/26/2023 9:44:55 AM (No. 1387630)
What # 8 said.
3 people like this.

Reply 10 - Posted by: coldborezero 1/26/2023 10:25:43 AM (No. 1387657)
#1: I have enjoyed and respected your opinions on this site for many years. I even know what DVC means (h/t Col. Cooper, RIP). So, I ask this question with the greatest respect: What is the interest of We The People in Ukraine? I specifically exclude the people in the federal government. I already know THEIR interest in Ukraine, which is simply to launder trillions of dollars for the globalists. Federal workers are NOT Americans. So, why should the blood and treasure of the AMERICAN people be wasted on Ukraine? I sincerely want to know.
5 people like this.

Reply 11 - Posted by: Strike3 1/26/2023 10:56:41 AM (No. 1387706)
Any reason other than "it's in America's best interests" is the wrong reason. Biden is being manipulated by Milley to do stupid things.
1 person likes this.

Reply 12 - Posted by: bigfatslob 1/26/2023 11:28:19 AM (No. 1387756)
Our country is souly in the hands of Hunter Biden (smartest person in the room) and Track Suit Boy, Zelinsky of the Ukraine all things flow through them. FTUkraine.
3 people like this.

Reply 13 - Posted by: DVC 1/26/2023 12:20:41 PM (No. 1387792)
Re #2. Neither a military man or a tanker. Just a serious amateur military historian, often frustrated by missing information and misinformation in the media, and by posters here. My family is shot through with three generations of USN aviators, including one who is still on active duty flying F-35s. I am a civilian pilot, but my imperfect vision kept me from being a USN aviator myself. Instead I went into engineering and designed weapons for the government for almost 40 years. But....I had a friend in the 1980s through 1990s who was a US Army LtCol and tank commander in Desert Storm, was in one of the units who made the "left hook" out in the desert to win the Battle of 73 Easting where our armored forces shattered Iraqi armored forces in Desert Storm. I have a video he made during the post battle review of the battlefield. He taught me a lot about the M1 Abrams, and if not for an unavoidable schedule conflict that prevented my attendance, I would have been able to fire the main gun of an M1 on a firing range under his guidance. He explained much to an interested listener over many years, and I have been fascinated by armor ever since. My history bent also led me and my wife to visit the Tank Museum in Bovington, England and spend an entire day looking at their amazing collection, many of which the drive most days. There are superb videos of historic tanks by a tank historian, Nicholas Moran, a former US Army, now Nat Guard, officer with deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan with the M1. I drove a Sherman tank in Minnesota a number of years ago, and asked enough intelligent questions of the owner that after the drive and car crushing show, he and I spent a couple of hours going through his collection of dozens of tanks from all nations, getting inside, discussing suspension designs, engine and transmission design pros and cons, and guns, etc. He is a real tank history guru and basically runs a private armor museum. It was a treat to get inside of many of the British, US and USSR tanks since WW2, including driving a British Abbot Self Propelled Gun and FV432 Armored Personnel Carrier as training and testing of myself prior to being permitted to drive the rare, valuable and historic Sherman. Military history, with a bent towards understanding how the equipment from rifles to tanks to aircraft played a part in wars, has been a passion for many decades, sparked by endless talks about their jobs by USN carrier aviators around the dinner table my whole life.
2 people like this.

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