Cash is king for EV makers as soaring
battery prices drive up vehicle production costs
CNBC,
by
John Rosevear
Original Article
Posted By: NorthernDog,
8/28/2022 9:41:42 AM
In the transition from gas-powered vehicles to electric, the fuel every automaker is after these days is cold hard cash. Established automakers and startups alike are rolling out new battery-powered models in an effort to meet growing demand. Ramping up production of a new model was already a fraught and expensive process, but rising material costs and tricky regulations for federal incentives are squeezing coffers even further. Prices of the raw materials used in many electric-vehicle batteries — lithium, nickel and cobalt — have soared over the last two years as demand has skyrocketed, and it may be several years before miners
Reply 1 - Posted by:
franq 8/28/2022 9:53:04 AM (No. 1261440)
Going to be a disaster, OP? It passed that point 20 years ago. At least thieves can't start my cars with the tip of a cell phone charger. Wait till the turn signals quit working and you have to replace the entire CPU, because it all is routed together.
12 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
kennedylaw 8/28/2022 10:02:32 AM (No. 1261447)
There is no "transition from gas-powered vehicles to electric." The goal is to "transition" most people from owning their own vehicles to mass transit. Rich liberals will then be able to drive around in their $80K EVs without getting stuck in traffic.
19 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
Zigrid 8/28/2022 10:08:06 AM (No. 1261452)
Electric cars are a joke...the greenies want no gas cars because of the environment...but all electric cars need a charge...which is generated from a factory that uses coal...so where's the saving from generating energy from coal...doesn't make sense.....and if it doesn't make sense....it's all about control and who's pocket is getting filled...always follow the money as Rush Limbaugh used to say....
22 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
rytwng 8/28/2022 10:34:37 AM (No. 1261472)
If it makes you feel good buy a electric car. The rest of us want GAS power.
15 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
DVC 8/28/2022 10:37:21 AM (No. 1261473)
And it turns out that EVs are dramatically worse for the environment to build, and they RUN ON COAL.
22 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
snowoutlaw 8/28/2022 11:08:12 AM (No. 1261515)
E-cars are much simpler to design and build than gas therefore they should be cheaper.
4 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
bigfatslob 8/28/2022 11:28:21 AM (No. 1261535)
By comparison to rebuild an internal combustion engine and a fitting transmission is a thousand times cheaper than one battery and the cost of disposal of that toxic old battery. Facts are facts you can't hide the truth. I'll just keep my 2011 low mileage car running for quite a while unless gas pumps are outlawed then a bicycle is in my future. FEV
12 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
Delilah 8/28/2022 11:29:43 AM (No. 1261536)
Yesterday there was an article in our local newspaper about a hybrid car catching fire while the owner was driving it. She got it into a parking lot and saved herself before it exploded three times, injuring fire fighters. They attributed the explosions to the huge batteries.
14 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
Mizz Fixxit 8/28/2022 11:30:39 AM (No. 1261539)
Right, “follow the money.” The money trail leads to well connected democrats who are heavily invested in EV companies. That means, too big to fail. We can expect enormous federal government subsidies. And bailouts in the event of financial collapse.
8 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
LC Chihuahua 8/28/2022 11:51:49 AM (No. 1261560)
Dumb question time...
Two EVs each have a range of 200 miles. If one averages 60MPH and the other averages 50MPH, how long before they have to stop and recharge? Does an EV need to recharge sooner because it goes faster?
I don't see how an EV can be used for anything other than local transportation. If one is traveling long distance they will still need a gas powered vehicle because they will lose too much time recharging.
6 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
franq 8/28/2022 11:56:14 AM (No. 1261566)
Yes it would need recharged sooner. D = r x t. D is a constant.
If it averaged 100mph, it would need charged in 2 hours as opposed to 4.
5 people like this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
czechlist 8/28/2022 12:28:39 PM (No. 1261591)
It is worse than most know. We are not only being forced into EVs but into subscriptions for things such as heated/cooled seats, GPS, Radio...and vehicles have digital dashboards collecting your driving habits and other data which will eventually be sold to insurance and marketing companies and, of course, accessed by government/ law enforcement.
Technology and governmental over-reach are stealing our liberty in this new serfdom.
7 people like this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
pugetpower 8/28/2022 12:28:56 PM (No. 1261592)
Its interesting, the constant barrage of articles regarding EV vehicles. Judging by the percentage of EV ownership vs petrol cars, the average working stiff could care less. My brother, who always had to have the newest thing would have bought one, your virtue signaling neighbor would buy
one, but the average person realizes EV's (at this time), would be a stupid purchase.
What is happening though, contractor duty tools are slowly going cordless. Heavy draw stuff like air compressors, and table saws are being produced by the major manufs. Course if the batterys down you just snap in another one and put the dead one on the charger. Ive got a lot of Dewalt 20v stuff, but when the garden tools go bad Im going to phase in cordless.
1 person likes this.
Reply 14 - Posted by:
Ida Lou Pino 8/28/2022 12:48:23 PM (No. 1261605)
FTA: " . . . rolling out new battery-powered models in an effort to meet growing demand."
FTA Correction: " . . . rolling out new battery-powered models in an effort to meet growing COMMAND."
Now it's accurate.
6 people like this.
Reply 15 - Posted by:
DVC 8/28/2022 1:09:28 PM (No. 1261619)
Re #10, I'm assuming that this is a serious question. And the answer is "Yes". The force that has to be overcome to push a vehicle forward on level ground is made up of three broad components. Tire rolling resistance is one, and internal friction in the bearings and motors and gears (if any) are another. The largest factor above about 40 mph or so, is aerodynamic drag. Everyone has put their hand out the window of a car moving at highway speeds at some time, and felt the "wind" pushing their hand backwards. This same sort of aerodynamic drag force acts on every square inch of the "frontal area" of the car. Whether the shape slips easily through the air or brute-forces it's way through has a large effect on how much drag force, with even the same sized vehicle. Think a curvy sports coupe versus a van. If they were the same frontal area, the van will have more drag.
And......the aerodynamic portion of drag, the majority at higher speeds, is proportional to the square of the speed. So, at 10 mph the speed squared is 100, units aren't important for the comparison. At 20 mph, twice the speed, the speed squared is 400, so twice the speed, four times the air drag.
The tire and bearing drag don't increase as rapidly, so this is why air drag dominates at higher speeds.
So....to the 50 mph versus 60mph question, 50 squared is 2500, and 60 squared is 3600, so the air drag at 60 mph will be 1.44 times more, so the power required out of the batteries (or out of your gas tank) will be substantially more. Since the tire drag and other drag numbers must be added, the increase in overall drag will be less than 1.44 times, guessing, maybe 1.2 to 1.3 times.
So, expect maybe 20% or greater reduction in range at 60 mph in your EV than at 50 mph.
2 people like this.
Reply 16 - Posted by:
DVC 8/28/2022 1:16:06 PM (No. 1261624)
Not accurate, #11. At 100 mph air drag is four times what it is at 50 mph. So, whatever your range is at 50 mph, you'd have around 1/4th that range at 100 mph. But there is a relatively constant drag component of tire rolling resistance and bearing frictions that is still real, but is massively less than the air drag by 100 mph, to the point that range is almost totally dominated by air drag at high speeds.
So, an EV with a range of 200 miles at 50 mph would get around 50 mile range at 100 mph. An there is another factor, batteries are less efficient at producing power when "used hard" versus "used gently". So, at 100 mph, there may well be internal battery heating and losses which would further reduce that range at high speed.
2 people like this.
Something else that no one is talking about - insuring these ridiculously-expensive cars. Combine the premium with the P&I (remember, interest rates will continue to rise) on a new $60,000+ vehicle and you'll be approaching a grand in payments every month, even if it sits in the garage most of the time.
Re #1's comment on the CPU, even my 2014 Altima is beyond anything my reliable mechanic troubleshoot if the problem originates in the box under the dashboard. A Tesla is basically a steering wheel and an IPad, and what do you do with an IPad that develops a problem?
1 person likes this.
Reply 18 - Posted by:
greyseal 8/28/2022 2:16:10 PM (No. 1261691)
Another factor for range and charge is temperature, so those in the more northern climes are going to see significant degradation of mileage and battery life.
Poster #2 has the correct answer - it's not about transition, it's about elimination. Step #1 is to mandate that only EVs can be purchased. Step #2 is to tax heavily both fuel and registration of ICE vehicles to prevent people from crossing state lines to buy them. Step #3 will be to limit the production of batteries due to the scarcity of rare earth materials, and step #4 will mandate that general travel will be limited to public transportation (buses, trains, and planes) while the elite will have the use of private cars and jets running on petroleum products.
It's basically the story of Rush's "Red Barchetta" coming to life...
greyseal
2 people like this.
Reply 19 - Posted by:
franq 8/28/2022 4:26:15 PM (No. 1261790)
Thanks, #15. I'm not an engineer, I just play one on occasion. Did not factor in wind resistance, just stated range versus speed. Your posts are always informative. Now if we could just set some of our resident economists straight....
1 person likes this.
Reply 20 - Posted by:
earlybird 8/28/2022 10:12:41 PM (No. 1261998)
No interest whatsoever. The higher the prices go, the more ridiculous any state or fed mandates.
0 people like this.
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Comments:
This is insane. Millions of drivers want a vehicle to get from point A to point B. Loading up cars with expensive electric components and batteries is going to be a disaster.