Baldwin Handed Gun With 'Live Rounds,'
Crew Walked Out Hours Prior Over Safety Issues
Red State,
by
Nick Arama
Original Article
Posted By: Dreadnought,
10/22/2021 10:54:34 PM
Things are not sounding good as more information comes out about the incident in which Alec Baldwin shot a cinematographer and the director on a movie set Thursday.
Now there are reports that there had been a lot of problems before the shooting – that the crew was upset about long hours, low pay, and having to commute 50 miles from Albuquerque instead of staying in Santa Fe. According to the Los Angeles Times, the camera crew walked off the production just hours before the shooting:
As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza
Hmmm. Setting up Alec? A love triangle gone bad? An accident? Why would there be live bullets on the set at all? It’ll be interesting to see what the real story is if it ever comes out.
28 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
snakeoil 10/22/2021 11:13:32 PM (No. 954611)
No one making a movie puts real bullets into guns. This is not just an accident.
46 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
TLCary 10/22/2021 11:18:28 PM (No. 954613)
And the script says that character #1 points the gun at the cinematographer and director and fires? No. Guns on sets are dangerous, (you could ask Brandon Lee if he were still alive). Baldwin was being juvenile with a dangerous prop and it cost someone their life and injured another.
39 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
janjan 10/22/2021 11:30:13 PM (No. 954615)
None of this excuses the fact that Baldwin pointed the gun at someone who was not even acting in the film and pulled the trigger. What was he thinking?
59 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
Starlifter Nav 10/22/2021 11:34:19 PM (No. 954618)
The writer st Red State is clueless. A 'live round' is a fully functioning deadly cartridge containing primer, propellant.(powder), and projectile (bullet) seated in a brass cartridge casing. A 'blank' is NOT a round of live ammunition.
That does not mean it isn't dangerous... it most certainly is.
That said, no one has established that there actually WAS live ammunition on the set, much less why it was there.
And the so called 'crew' running their mouths, using terms they do not understand, further compounds the issue.
I can't imagine that, as the producer, Baldwun escapes liability.
15 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
Starlifter Nav 10/22/2021 11:35:48 PM (No. 954619)
Arrgh. Post button next to text box. Baldwin.
Anyone remember Vic Morrow?
11 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
DVC 10/22/2021 11:36:05 PM (No. 954620)
One added confusion factor....apparently in movie parlance, a "live gun" is one loaded with blanks, as opposed to a "cold gun" which is unloaded.
In normal shooting language, a "live round" is a normal cartridge, primer, powder and a projectile, intended to punch a hole in the target. Typically, if a gun is loaded, it is just called "loaded", outside of a movie set.
There may be some misunderstanding if what a prop man calls "live" and what a firearms instructor calls "live", are not the same.
Inconsistent terms means that it is more difficult to be sure of what is being 'explained'.
And one wonders about what actual skill level these instant replacement 'gun experts ' had.
It doesn't help that most reporters don't know the first thing about guns or ammo, so may be adding to the confusion rather than sorting it out.
28 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
VAPMAN 10/22/2021 11:37:49 PM (No. 954622)
While unlikely, the possibility of this being a pre meditated murder made to look like an accident must be considered. Baldwin’s relationship with the woman killed needs to be explored. At a minimum this seems to be a negligent homicide.
25 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
Marzon 10/22/2021 11:50:27 PM (No. 954625)
Other reports stated the production company brought in non-union workers when the union guys left. Perhaps they left a surprise for the "scabs"?
26 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
bassman 10/22/2021 11:51:48 PM (No. 954626)
#5, a blank doesn't go through one person and then injure another. Reports are there was one shot fired. Had to be a live round.
25 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
FLCracker 10/23/2021 12:05:51 AM (No. 954631)
Well, folks, perhaps it IS time that we ban guns ---- on movie sets.
(How do you shoot two people with a non-automatic weapon, by "accident"? You gotta pull that trigger twice. Is Baldwin spastic or something?)
11 people like this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
formerNYer 10/23/2021 12:09:51 AM (No. 954633)
Just because it's called a "prop gun" doesn't mean it isn't a REAL gun. This was a real gun with live rounds a and dangerous, some one screwed up big time and Baldwin is am idiot to point a gun at anybody it not something you do even fooling around.
Also with the way CGI is now is there any reason not to CGI the gun shot and have toy guns that can't fire live rounds?
11 people like this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
wweste 10/23/2021 12:48:18 AM (No. 954646)
I find it interesting that someone who is so opposed to firearms ownership would make a movie where a firearm is used.
17 people like this.
Reply 14 - Posted by:
dickiedeeb 10/23/2021 1:20:13 AM (No. 954650)
Baldwin always seemed a walter white type ego but totally lacking the Heisenberg evil genius Not even 60% pure
5 people like this.
Reply 15 - Posted by:
bighambone 10/23/2021 1:24:41 AM (No. 954653)
Why did Baldwin aim the firearm at the cinematographer in the first place and then squeeze the trigger causing a homicide to occur?
31 people like this.
No need for that, #11. A total ban on guns for Democraps would make America the safest place on Earth. Most of them are simply too mentally deficient to be given any gun at all.
We've all seen the video of the chimp with the AK. Handing a firearm to a leftist is just about as stupid.
8 people like this.
Reply 17 - Posted by:
DVC 10/23/2021 2:00:35 AM (No. 954674)
Thinking hard about possibilities. The "old west" revolver is the Colt Single Action Army, or SAA. they came in a number of calibers, and when originals are used in movies, blanks for all those calibers are required. There used to be a kind or blank called "5-in-1" which would work in .45 Colt, .44-40 and .38-40 handguns and .44-40 and .38-40 lever action rifles, hence the name. A common original caliber was the .32-20, much smaller than the others. I have seen the obvious (to a gun nut) smaller bore on the barrels of these guns used in old TV shows occasionally, although most were .45 or .44s.
I did some dimensional checking....a .32-20 blank, if accidentally dropped into a .38-40 revolver cylinder would fall through, and likely lodge the cartridge rim in the barrel forcing cone area, so be out of the cylinder, but fully inside the barrel, rim a few thousandths of an inch too big to fall through. If a "5-in-1" blank were loaded behind this, the smaller blank cartridge, already in the barrel could act as a projectile, driven by the powder charge of the blank cartridge. It would likely fire itself when hit by the blast of the larger blank, but the cartridge case of the smaller blank is only 0.006" larger than the barrel inside diameter, so it could be driven through by the pressure behind it.
This would require just the error of dropping in a too small blank while loading. All the dimensions work.
A possibility, but who knows. At least this theory doesn't require an real "live ammo" on the set, just a range of different sized blanks that may very well have been present since these old pistols and rifles both use those .32-20 cartridges.
Pure speculation, could be wrong. But the dimensions work.
16 people like this.
Reply 18 - Posted by:
watashiyo 10/23/2021 5:39:49 AM (No. 954742)
#17, sharp as a razor.
6 people like this.
Reply 19 - Posted by:
anniebc 10/23/2021 6:20:13 AM (No. 954756)
As someone else asked, how do you accidentally shoot two people? Pretenders who hate guns in their real lives should not be allowed to use guns in their pretend lives. It's hypocritical. I hope Baldwin was, at the very least, held for questioning on suspicion of murder, like a normal person would be.
8 people like this.
Reply 20 - Posted by:
Enoch Powell 10/23/2021 6:38:52 AM (No. 954770)
And of course the anti-gun Hollywood lefties… all they do is make movies based upon gun violence.
13 people like this.
Reply 21 - Posted by:
F15 Gork 10/23/2021 6:39:29 AM (No. 954772)
Bad business for sure but I have to admit I’ve got a little schadenfreud going on here.....
11 people like this.
Reply 22 - Posted by:
minuteman 10/23/2021 6:42:36 AM (No. 954777)
Not only did he point it at her and pull the trigger, but someone would likely have had to pull the hammer back as well.
4 people like this.
Reply 23 - Posted by:
PChristopher 10/23/2021 6:49:48 AM (No. 954780)
Wasn't this an episode of Columbo?
9 people like this.
Reply 24 - Posted by:
DW626 10/23/2021 7:27:09 AM (No. 954801)
Ya know I remember as a kid, in the later 60's, my mom watching Perry Mason reruns in the afternoons. On one of the episodes, in fact I think it might’ve been the last episode they did before making the TV movies in the 80's, the star of the show in this episode they were doing was shot and killed while filming on a movie set.
This is Baldwin thing reminds me of this episode.
Spoiler alert the killer was well known amongst the teenagers and pre-teens of that time, and after of course.
3 people like this.
Reply 25 - Posted by:
jj1319 10/23/2021 7:30:31 AM (No. 954805)
#17, it should be noted that only .0003" (three ten thousandths of an inch) is required for a PRESS fit. increasing the interference by 20 times only decreases the likelihood that the casing would pass through, causing a tremendous problem on the barrel end. Regardless, I was told that the firearm used was a shotgun. Remains to be seen.
2 people like this.
Reply 26 - Posted by:
flybynight 10/23/2021 7:40:58 AM (No. 954821)
OK, I don’t know nothin’ ‘bout no guns, never owned one.. But aren’t there some basic rules of gun handling?
Like, every gun is loaded- with real bullets- until thorough visual inspection proves otherwise?
And never aim a gun at anything or anyone you don’t intend to destroy? And never put a finger through a trigger guard until you are fully prepared to pull that trigger?
Just asking. But Baldwin, being wealthy, famous, and liberal, will get away with murder.
9 people like this.
Reply 27 - Posted by:
TCloud 10/23/2021 7:56:44 AM (No. 954835)
Pistol or rifle prop? Wheel gun or mag fed? Semi or full auto? More questions than answers right Vern? Vern says they are too Woke and full of PC!
1 person likes this.
Reply 28 - Posted by:
gwholmessr 10/23/2021 8:10:52 AM (No. 954850)
What is sad is a young woman’s family is grieving because of neglect on the movie set. Baldwin will escape and probably will have to pay money like OJ did but will probably come from some liability insurance policy.
4 people like this.
Reply 29 - Posted by:
udanja99 10/23/2021 8:21:09 AM (No. 954859)
No matter what was in the gun or who handed it to Baldwin or what they told him, he is at fault for aiming it at someone and pulling the trigger. Ignorance is not an excuse. He’s due some prison time for gross negligence and involuntary manslaughter. Put him in the general population. The other prisoners will “love” him.
6 people like this.
This was not a blank, if the most recent reports are to be believed. The weapon is a 'vintage Colt' which could be anything from an Single Action Army to a Peacemaker. Reports are that it was a single discharge from several feet away; the bullet hit the woman in the chest, passed completely through, and then struck the second victim in the clavicle. That is definitely not a blank, but a live round of ammo with a projectile.
The armorer is very young (24) and has only worked one other movie shoot in that role. The chain of custody being described stinks to high heaven. She (the Armorer) laid out three weapons on a cart. The assistant director took one of them into the building and handed it to Baldwin. At no point were the weapons checked when transferred from person to person.
They seem to have a complete procedural breakdown not just in the way that they casually handle lethal weapons, but in the fact that this movie is being shot on a shoestring budget and they don't seem to have proper oversight on chain of custody of weapons because they don't have all the normal personnel you would have on a normal budget. Couple that with the walkout of members of the union that day, replacement by locals, and it was a recipe for exactly what happened.
7 people like this.
Reply 31 - Posted by:
RockiesFan 10/23/2021 8:42:38 AM (No. 954890)
If Baldwin wasn’t such a blowhard pontificating anti second amendment dickwad, he would have checked the weapon (regardless of what he was told) and he wouldn’t be in this mess. Involuntary manslaughter at the very least. Gun safety is more important and effective than gun control.
8 people like this.
Reply 32 - Posted by:
ControlFreak 10/23/2021 8:57:42 AM (No. 954922)
On every movie set I’ve been on, the DP is usually standing directly in front of the action while filming. That’s why she got shot.
0 people like this.
Reply 33 - Posted by:
Republic Can 10/23/2021 9:14:41 AM (No. 954946)
ANYone who handles firearms on set should be made to attend an NRA training class and receive a completion cert to go in their resume. Period.
See how many liberals want parts in action movies after that.
2 people like this.
Reply 34 - Posted by:
Paperpuncher 10/23/2021 9:20:16 AM (No. 954958)
Basic gun safety is actually very simple.
1. Treat every gun as though it is loaded. When picked up or handed to you check to see yourself that if it is loaded even if the person that handed it to you checked, check again. (There is no such thing as an “empty gun.”)
2. Never aim a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Never put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to pull it.
It took a number of safety screw ups for this to happen. Stupidly is not an acceptable excuse.
3 people like this.
Reply 35 - Posted by:
DVC 10/23/2021 10:06:12 AM (No. 955022)
#25....if the firearm was a shotgun, this is interesting.
A handgun blank is very visibly different than a live cartridge, difficult to mistake one for the other.
A blank shotgun shell does not look significantly different than a normal shotgun shell, so it would be easier to somehow have had a live shell mixed in and not noticed.
0 people like this.
Reply 36 - Posted by:
Goose 10/23/2021 10:06:49 AM (No. 955024)
This occurred on a movie set? Were the cameras rolling? Could answer many questions.
2 people like this.
Reply 37 - Posted by:
AltaD 10/23/2021 10:06:50 AM (No. 955025)
This isn't a snarky question, it's an honest question from someone who has zero experience with guns or filming movies/tv shows. If a 'cold gun' is safe, then why do film sets ever use anything other than a 'cold gun'?
3 people like this.
Reply 38 - Posted by:
Strike3 10/23/2021 11:42:34 AM (No. 955130)
So everybody there on the set was smarter than Baldwin? Why do I find that so easy to believe? People who constantly rant about something they know very little about end up looking like total fools.
1 person likes this.
Reply 39 - Posted by:
bighambone 10/23/2021 12:19:40 PM (No. 955171)
It was a live round that was fired, as the round went right through the female’s body (chest) and then struck a male who was standing behind her. No blank round would be powerful enough to do that. The female was a cinematographer operating a camera, and was not a actress, so it should be asked why did Baldwin aim the firearm at her, squeeze the trigger, and perpetuate a homicide?
3 people like this.
Reply 40 - Posted by:
DVC 10/23/2021 4:12:11 PM (No. 955393)
Re #30, A Colt Single Action Army is a Colt Peacemaker. Two names, same guns. Also, when the caliber is .44-40, marked on the barrel, "Frontier Six Shooter".
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/7482/8788159_1.jpg?v=8CC7F070788C5E0
1 person likes this.
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