Vox calls Beethoven's Fifth Symphony
'a symbol of exclusion and elitism’
Washington Examiner,
by
Spencer Neale
Original Article
Posted By: NorthernDog,
9/15/2020 6:21:45 PM
Has the 19th-century German composer Ludwig van Beethoven become a modern symbol of "exclusion and elitism" for rich, white men? In an article published by Vox on Tuesday that quoted New York Philharmonic clarinetist Anthony McGill, writers Nate Sloan and Charlie Harding argued that the work has been propped up by white, wealthy men, whose embrace of the musical composition stood as a symbol of "their superiority and importance." "For others — women, LGBTQ+ people, people of color — Beethoven’s symphony is predominantly a reminder of classical music’s history of exclusion and elitism," Sloan and Harding wrote. The writers suggested
Reply 1 - Posted by:
Mushroom 9/15/2020 6:31:53 PM (No. 541901)
Right OP and no one sampled anyone! Best version I ever heard was by P.D.Q.Bach. Track it down if you can and be prepared for a true musicological lesson!
7 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
FormerDem 9/15/2020 6:32:49 PM (No. 541903)
As a woman I am going there, where Beethoven's music is played. I understand there is a group sulking about it somehow and I don't want to be around them except if they need food or medicine in which case just that long. Then bye. You bores.
13 people like this.
Oh good grief! This is beyond stupid.
44 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
Mushroom 9/15/2020 6:34:50 PM (No. 541909)
Here's it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzXoVo16pTg
Peter would take this to colleges and the local head coach would provide color commentary. :)
3 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
HerbVA 9/15/2020 6:37:01 PM (No. 541912)
And I suspect they believe jungle music is better.
21 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
Hoosier 9/15/2020 6:37:03 PM (No. 541913)
I guess they would really have a problem with Wagner.
33 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
seamusm 9/15/2020 6:37:12 PM (No. 541914)
Okay. Then my challenge is name one single composer who is a woman, black, or LBGTQ+ whose work can stand up Beethoven's. Come on - take your time.........Gotcha. So STHU. It is essentially the same response I make when I ask someone to name a single world-class university from the Middle East or any Arab country. Or, outside of the number 'zero', name a single intellectual accomplishment from ANY Islamic part of the world - there haven't been any.
29 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
bamapreacher 9/15/2020 6:39:05 PM (No. 541918)
#6.. I'm sure they would love Wagner. He was about as anti-Semitic as they get and Hitler adored his music.
8 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
bamapreacher 9/15/2020 6:40:07 PM (No. 541920)
and #7, I'm sure there are many out there but normal people like us don't know about them.
4 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
bad-hair 9/15/2020 6:51:30 PM (No. 541935)
So they must REALLY hate the much better 6th or have they heard it. Ask your average Twitter Twit how many elite symphonies Mozart wrote and while the blank stare is still their face ask them who Hadyn was.
13 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
plaids 9/15/2020 6:52:52 PM (No. 541937)
Ghetto rap is so soothing!!
6 people like this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
montwoodcliff 9/15/2020 6:53:18 PM (No. 541938)
No. 7 is correct. If there were other great music by the other people spelled out in his post, we would have heard about it, but to answer his question, all we hear are crickets. I just want to know when this preoccupation with race is going to stop. I think it is now falling on deaf ears.
14 people like this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
davew 9/15/2020 7:01:09 PM (No. 541946)
Western music emerged from the same technological and cultural advances as Western science, medicine, law, and philosophy. Classical music has persisted in time because it took advantage of the development of the printing press and the emergence of standardized notation (code) that allowed composers to construct pieces for many more instruments with harmonic and rhythmic structures that were not feasible without music notation. Western technology also developed skills like instrument making including machined instruments like valved brass instruments and large pipe organs that were marvels of their time. Written music skills also required the emergence of public music education and great traditions of teachers that insured a growing audience for even more virtuosity and challenging compositions.
There were also great popular traditions of music but until the advent of recording and radio they could only be transmitted by a small number of local musicians and never had the wide audience of written compositions. Jazz is probably the highest example of this artform but it was largely overwhelmed by the much more profitable pop music industry which dominates today.
Classical music is inherently elitist because only a tiny number of musicians can ever achieve the mastery of their instruments needed to play it well. Pop music has been so divorced from this tradition that a 17 year old DJ can play pre-recorded MP3 tracks for 300,000 people at a rave and make $20 million a year.
27 people like this.
Reply 14 - Posted by:
mc squared 9/15/2020 7:09:26 PM (No. 541952)
How long until we all become Woke and recognise that EVERYTHING is racist. When whites are eradicated, blacks will complain that there nothing to complain about.
16 people like this.
Reply 15 - Posted by:
David Key 9/15/2020 7:25:51 PM (No. 541959)
Great music is great music. It makes us all better regardless of the color or era that it was composed in. As opposed to a lot of the crap that gets praised today we need to be reminded that there is great music out there. I'm not a German but I appreciate Mozart and Beethoven because it is brilliant music. I love Motown and hate rap, soul, rhythm and blues are great, jazz white or black composed is great. To cancel culture is to be a barbarian a racist barbarian at that.
12 people like this.
Reply 16 - Posted by:
Calvinesq 9/15/2020 7:32:22 PM (No. 541963)
Let’s not also forget that the iconic opening of the fifth was used as a march to victory strain by the Allies against Hitler’s Germany.
The Left will not rest until the have eliminated Western history and culture. They dream about the end of history as the beginning of the worldwide slavery of communism they seek.
Time again to play the opening strain of the fifth right back at them.
10 people like this.
Reply 17 - Posted by:
DVC 9/15/2020 7:38:47 PM (No. 541969)
And so?
4 people like this.
Reply 18 - Posted by:
Lawsy0 9/15/2020 7:38:54 PM (No. 541970)
Oh just cut Beethoven some slack, can't ya! He is a product of his era. There was no TV, nor radio, nor internet, nor porn, nor YouTube nor even women in government to rant and rave. All he had was his intricate melodies, harmonies and an intense desire to be better than anyone else in his cohort.
9 people like this.
Reply 19 - Posted by:
Newtsche 9/15/2020 7:40:14 PM (No. 541971)
Well of course, everything suffers in comparison to Cardi B's "WAP" (don't look it up).
7 people like this.
Reply 20 - Posted by:
Bur Oak 9/15/2020 7:45:47 PM (No. 541976)
I surmise they wouldn't like Porgy and Bess by Gershwin.
6 people like this.
Reply 21 - Posted by:
WhamDBambam 9/15/2020 7:50:21 PM (No. 541983)
WhamDBambam calls Vox dudes cretins.
5 people like this.
Reply 22 - Posted by:
WhamDBambam 9/15/2020 8:00:34 PM (No. 541989)
Sorry for the second post. Thank you, #21.
Emanuel Ax - Brahms - Piano Concerto No 2 in B flat major, Op 83
8 people like this.
Considering that there is a theory floating out there that says Beethoven is black, this is amusing.
https://www.classicfm.com/composers/beethoven/was-black-twitter-debates-african-heritage/
2 people like this.
Reply 24 - Posted by:
lakerman1 9/15/2020 8:13:33 PM (No. 542003)
and not one of you people mentioned Chopin! For shame! Your collective implicit bigotry towards the Polish composer has seeped out!
(Hey! This mindless accusatory stuff is fun!)
6 people like this.
Reply 25 - Posted by:
chance_232 9/15/2020 8:37:48 PM (No. 542018)
Re#7. Piotr Ilich Tchaikovski, Reynaldo Hahn, Francis Poulenc. Thats three that we know of. Back then, they didnt exactly fly pride flags.
Aaron Copland, Samuel Barber, Leonard Bernstein, Franz Schubert, Frederic Chopin......
Before making a completely disprovable statement, you might want to employ your search engine and do 30 seconds of research. Google "LGBT composers", it will return a list 165 pages long.
Now, take your own advice.
1 person likes this.
Second movement, Beethoven’s Fifth Piano Concerto.
2 people like this.
Reply 27 - Posted by:
Moritz55 9/15/2020 8:50:04 PM (No. 542025)
Call it what you like, I’m still going to listen to the 5th, as well as thousands of other politically incorrect musical treasures.
6 people like this.
Reply 28 - Posted by:
Fitzroy 9/15/2020 9:00:00 PM (No. 542027)
These people are grossly misinformed. They don't know that this supposedly jingoistic Western music is thriving in Asia. They also don't know that black opera stars are now the norm (and I'm not just talking Porgy and Bess). And obviously they can't figure out that the smattering of elitism in classical music is dwarfed by the elitism of dilettante journalists. They don't know that even though Beethoven is the only classical composer they can name, that there are hundreds of others whose music is still performed. They're going to need a bigger cancel culture to wipe them all out.
They ask "how Beethoven’s symphony was transformed from a symbol of triumph and freedom into a symbol of exclusion, elitism, and gatekeeping — everything we love to hate about classical music today. How did the meaning of this symphony get so twisted?"
Easy answer: It was twisted by you!
I'm confident that when this woke insanity has passed and no one dares to admit they were ever on board with it, Beethoven's music will still be played and enjoyed by people representing just about every possible demographic.
7 people like this.
Just more proof that the Left is populated by vulgar Philistines
6 people like this.
Reply 30 - Posted by:
marbles 9/15/2020 9:10:57 PM (No. 542033)
When the "woke" left declares that anything/everything done by white people is bad, civilization dies.
5 people like this.
Reply 31 - Posted by:
DVC 9/15/2020 9:15:11 PM (No. 542037)
Well, if feel excluded, go ahead and saranade yourself and friends with your humming. Very egalitarian, humming.
IMO, these moron's opinions are as important as farts.
3 people like this.
Reply 32 - Posted by:
Jennie C. 9/15/2020 9:41:59 PM (No. 542043)
The Ode to Joy (as the Beatles called it), otherwise known as the hymn Joyful Joyful We Adore You, is now exclusive and elite? Sorry, I'm outta here.
4 people like this.
Reply 33 - Posted by:
Jennie C. 9/15/2020 9:47:27 PM (No. 542046)
#11: the Sixth (Pastoral) is my absolute favorite of Beethoven.
5 people like this.
Reply 34 - Posted by:
TJ54 9/15/2020 10:26:26 PM (No. 542066)
Vox - Naff off losers
2 people like this.
Reply 35 - Posted by:
Kate318 9/15/2020 10:33:34 PM (No. 542069)
There is a terrific book called, “The Hidden Messages in Water.” It was a bestseller some years ago, and it displayed photography of water molecules when exposed to a number of different influences, such as music, language, etc. The water molecules that were exposed to classical music or loving, kind verbal messages created lovely shapes, kind of like snowflakes. The molecules that were exposed to harsh, hateful language or heavy metal and rap music were gnarled and misshapen. The point was to demonstrate at the molecular level what these types of influences would have on all living things, including humans.
4 people like this.
Reply 36 - Posted by:
lakerman1 9/15/2020 10:41:59 PM (No. 542074)
2nd post apologies, but, #28, you don't get sarcasm, do you? Read my post again!
Here is a suggestion, though - go to youtube, and listen to guitarist Kaare Norge play chopin's Opus 9, No.2 (nocturne)
There is no music in the world better than that. also, listen to the Ukranian woman pianist - same music. Has there ever been more majestic phrasing?
2 people like this.
Reply 37 - Posted by:
JHHolliday 9/15/2020 10:48:54 PM (No. 542079)
It’s really hard to make this up. The claim that great music is somehow racist is laughable. That said, I wish I had a better ear for the classical stuff. Some I like but I can tell most is beautiful. Unlike low intelligence people who think rap, hip hop is uplifting and good music. Talk about the lowest common denominator creating dreck that nobody will remember in 20 years.
3 people like this.
Reply 38 - Posted by:
Ashley Brenton 9/15/2020 11:17:43 PM (No. 542093)
Elitist? Look...no other culture outside of Western Civilzation developed orchestral music.
And there's a reason Chinese kids have to learn piano or violin, and NOBODY ANYWHERE spends time studying that dreadful music they play in Chinese restaurants.
5 people like this.
Reply 39 - Posted by:
PChristopher 9/16/2020 12:16:44 AM (No. 542127)
Using this logic, Rap and Hip-hop are equally exclusionary since it excludes anyone with a normal, fully formed brain and does nothing but foment hate.
5 people like this.
Reply 40 - Posted by:
4Justice 9/16/2020 12:21:09 AM (No. 542129)
These leftists are worse than the old Soviets. At least the Soviets appreciated great masterpieces. These rotters want to destroy all the greatest accomplishments of modern mankind. As someone mentioned, they probably think (c)rap and hip hop noise is worthy of exaltation and any great accomplishments by whites should be destroyed and erased from history forever. They want us all brought down to the lowest common denominator and put us all back into.the Dark Ages...or maybe even caveman days.
4 people like this.
Reply 41 - Posted by:
ussjimmycarter 9/16/2020 12:21:59 AM (No. 542130)
I left my music major at The University of Iowa while sitting in the music lounge studying The History Of Jazz. I overheard a group of medium talented individuals discussing what Mozart was saying about The Meaning of Life when he wrote his music! I couldn’t take being around these pompous asses anymore! Never looked back! The culture was awful!
2 people like this.
Reply 42 - Posted by:
smokincol 9/16/2020 12:27:18 AM (No. 542136)
this race BS is so far out of control, it will take another 4 years of President Donald J. Trump to straighten it out.
TRUMP 2020 and beyond
2 people like this.
Reply 43 - Posted by:
DARling 9/16/2020 12:55:03 AM (No. 542147)
I don't think anyone will be listening to sleazy ghetto music two hundred years from now. What is truly good stands the test of time. That goes for Beethoven, Mozart, as well as talented artists like Nat King Cole and countless jazz greats from the 20th century. Rap is the gutter of music.
1 person likes this.
Reply 44 - Posted by:
Zarin 9/16/2020 1:07:40 AM (No. 542154)
There is a whole series on You Tube of black teens who for the first time ever are hearing classical opera sung by famous singers. The kids are rappers or whatever - so they like music - but when they hear these artists performing the aria from Puccini etc. they are amazed. Sometime they weep they are so awed by the music and the beauty of the emotion.
1 person likes this.
Reply 45 - Posted by:
Chuzzles 9/16/2020 1:55:06 AM (No. 542185)
Back in that era, it was the wealthy who were patrons of these composers, which allowed them to create their music. I heard a music critic years ago that people would be very surprised if they knew how much of modern music is actually ripped off from these 'greats' of musical composing.
I don't pay attention to the ignorant who populate sites like Vox. Vox in English means voice, or cry and they sure aren't the 'voice' of the majority. But they have cried a lot during the Trump years, and God willing they will wail their guts out during the next 4.
1 person likes this.
Reply 46 - Posted by:
Trigger2 9/16/2020 2:16:46 AM (No. 542196)
Get a life VOX since you obviously don't have one.
0 people like this.
Reply 47 - Posted by:
LaValette 9/16/2020 2:47:53 AM (No. 542204)
Nonsense. Beethoven is for the common man. Bach is for elitists.
1 person likes this.
Reply 48 - Posted by:
XCenturion 9/16/2020 3:04:26 AM (No. 542208)
I wonder what they'd think of the Guns N Roses song, Welcome to the Jungle?
0 people like this.
The planned destruction of Western Civilization and the white race continues. Shakespeare, Beethoven, etc,
racists all.
0 people like this.
Reply 50 - Posted by:
Goose 9/16/2020 9:21:39 AM (No. 542414)
Now do the Jupiter Symphony.
1 person likes this.
Reply 51 - Posted by:
udanja99 9/16/2020 9:43:26 AM (No. 542443)
So, who has prevented POC’s from writing symphonies? Or inventing any of the other world changing things that white men invented? These idiots are blaming their own peoples’ inadequacies on whites.
1 person likes this.
Reply 52 - Posted by:
kono 9/16/2020 1:28:23 PM (No. 542717)
I'll dust off my give-a-damn about what Charlie and Nate think about music that I like as soon as they start giving a damn what we think about the music they like. Regarding what Beethoven's Fifth symbolizes, they can speak only about what it symbolizes to them. To declare what it symbolizes to anybody else takes a hefty helping of arrogance.
0 people like this.
Reply 53 - Posted by:
kono 9/16/2020 1:35:30 PM (No. 542726)
And #47 (Sometime they weep they are so awed by the music and the beauty of the emotion.) -- Sometimes they weep because the realization of how primitive their favorite music is hurts their sense of self. Realizing your greatest isn't even on the radar screen of worthy achievements can be a painful reality check.
Of course, some would say they weep because operatic singing hurts their ears.
0 people like this.
Reply 54 - Posted by:
zoidberg 9/16/2020 2:52:11 PM (No. 542792)
Garrett Morris, from the original Saturday Night Live cast, is a trained classical singer. He will insist to anyone who will listen that Beethoven was black. I know Beethoven loved bass, but I'll need more evidence.
0 people like this.
Reply 55 - Posted by:
zoidberg 9/16/2020 2:59:10 PM (No. 542800)
My favorite Beethoven piece is his Violin Concerto.
1 person likes this.
Comments:
I don't often listing to classical music but appreciate its complexity and beauty. I guess Rap and Hip Hop will now be performed in place of Beethoven, Mozart, and Bach.