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Hospitals consider universal
do-not-resuscitate orders
for coronavirus patients

Original Article

Posted By: Boliver, 3/26/2020 1:16:24 PM

Hospitals on the front lines of the pandemic are engaged in a heated private debate over a calculation few have encountered in their lifetimes — how to weigh the “save at all costs” approach to resuscitating a dying patient against the real danger of exposing doctors and nurses to the contagion of coronavirus... Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago has been discussing a do-not-resuscitate policy for infected patients, regardless of the wishes of the patient or their family members...

Comments:

Here we go!

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Reply 1 - Posted by: AltaD 3/26/2020 1:30:45 PM (No. 358783)
FTA: the decision to send in fewer doctors and nurses to help a coding patient is about “minimizing use of PPE as we go into the surge.” The media likes to blame Trump for a lack of supplies but I'm putting the blame on hospital administrators. Administrators who now want to let patients die because they failed to have adequate backup supplies.
32 people like this.

Reply 2 - Posted by: BugsyinOrygone 3/26/2020 1:30:54 PM (No. 358784)
Of course, Chicago. With their plan there will be more murders in the city.
19 people like this.

Reply 3 - Posted by: Toledo 3/26/2020 1:31:05 PM (No. 358785)
This will be happening in blue states with evil death panel Dems gleefully in charge.
28 people like this.

Reply 4 - Posted by: privateer 3/26/2020 1:31:43 PM (No. 358787)
It's the Waahh! Poop , so perhaps a grain of truth. So the medical establishment wants to take the 'panels' out of 'death panels'. We were warned about this.
24 people like this.

Reply 5 - Posted by: Suzi 3/26/2020 1:37:56 PM (No. 358794)
More click-bait. I'm an RN. With sick 80+ year olds with 2-3 co-morbidities, this conversation is overdue ANYWAY. Look at trajectory of illness. "You gotta die of something" sounds unkind and utilitarian. But the reality is that there is a reasonable (and unreasonable) amount of intervention EVERY DAY in our hospitals. Privacy, dignity and comfort give way to fear, procrastination. greed, guilt and ignorance. This fuels the ABUSE of our elderly population as we flog them until their inevitable, sometimes not-so-peaceful exit.
29 people like this.

Reply 6 - Posted by: Boliver 3/26/2020 1:41:15 PM (No. 358798)
I just heard about this on FOX, too. It was a story in the last 2 hrs. of programming. A decision like this makes this look like a planned thinning of the population. Hello Georgia Guidestones.
10 people like this.

Reply 7 - Posted by: Boliver 3/26/2020 1:45:40 PM (No. 358802)
#5 - you're not going to look at this info as 'click-bait' when it concerns someone you love.
24 people like this.

Reply 8 - Posted by: Hermit_Crab 3/26/2020 1:49:49 PM (No. 358809)
#4 pretty much said what I was going to say; Not even death panels, but death general orders. Now I personally have my DNR orders in with my doctor and the local hospital, even though about getting it tattooed on me.., and I am all for realistic Triage... But Universal DNR? I bet the Doctors and Administrators of the hospitals that want to do this exempt themselves and their families from it.
23 people like this.

Reply 9 - Posted by: Suzi 3/26/2020 1:56:57 PM (No. 358818)
#7. It's my life's work and passion to help people who are the end of their lives to pass with those 3 things we all value so much in the end: Comfort, dignity, and privacy. I have held the hand of 100's of dying people, as well as my young (76) mother with lung cancer. The difficult part is explaining to people the parallel universe. People don't realize it until it's over and they have perspective. Dozens of my patients' family members have said afterward that they wish they had known the length and degree of suffering they would witness. They wouldn't have sanctioned such interventions. It's a really tough place to be, trying to explain it. People become very angry. But I am determined to do my best to help those who are defenseless.
28 people like this.

Reply 10 - Posted by: IowaMarinesDad 3/26/2020 2:03:58 PM (No. 358826)
I agree with poster #5. I’m a paramedic. I work for two hospital based services. I’ve been in codes where the patient is in their 80s to even upper 90s. They have many comorbidities. But they are full codes, so we must code them. I have been in codes lasting more than 40 minutes. I’ve wanted to ask,LOUDLY, just what do we hope to achieve here. This patient, at the point, has no hope of recovery and, certainly, no hope for any quality of life. As for poster #7. My dad will be 100 in August. If I was around and they tried to code him, I would threaten to sue. People should be allowed to die with their dignity intact. If you’ve ever watched a person being coded, you would know. It ain’t pretty.
18 people like this.

Reply 11 - Posted by: Boliver 3/26/2020 2:11:28 PM (No. 358839)
They are not talking about only the elderly in this article, or on the news. I understand 80+ with many issues.
10 people like this.

Reply 12 - Posted by: JL80863 3/26/2020 2:13:34 PM (No. 358841)
Reinforcing the belief that hospitals are places to go to die.
12 people like this.

Reply 13 - Posted by: janjan 3/26/2020 2:15:43 PM (No. 358844)
I see both sides of the debate here. I am not in a medical field but my daughter is an RN and has told me some of the horror stories about coding. But a DNR order that ignores the wishes of the patient and the family does not sit well. That is playing God. Doctors and RN’s are educated and dedicated but they are not God.
19 people like this.

Reply 14 - Posted by: Mike22 3/26/2020 2:29:41 PM (No. 358859)
Regarding blaming the hospital administrators - is it not the "bending the cost curve" advanced by obamacare the reason so many hospitals were closed and remaining hospitals "thinned" of critical equipment like ventilators? Wasn't it Gov Cuomo who decided not to buy the 16,000 ventilators when his medical advisors recommended them and they were available at a bargain price a couple of years ago? And spent nearly twice as much money as the ventilators would have cost on a solar plant? As for "just let Grandma die" there is a point when codes make no sense, but perhaps not for 65 year olds - should we let "Tom Hanks die"? (His Hollywood politics aside) After all, he is over 60 and has diabetes. We were told to "let mom pass" 30 years ago when she was 64 and there "was no hope" and we refused. I talked to her last night and she was enjoying the early spring flowers, the great food and her TV programs. Years ago we were told to "let Grandpa go". We said no and he had ten years relaxing in his lazy boy and out on his porch before passing peacefully in his sleep. In my family we do not have the DNRs that the medical people keep pushing but we have a person with medical power of attorney who knows our wishes.
26 people like this.

Reply 15 - Posted by: Suzi 3/26/2020 2:31:02 PM (No. 358861)
#13. Agree 100%. This is where the medical establishment has failed our patients and their suffering families. We must start a new conversation. One of the problems is that, even though there IS statistical data outlining trajectory of illness and likelihood of death, most aren't proficient or comfortable explaining it. There's that minuscule "chance" that the patient will recover. But then, we must examine quality of life issues in survival. Who am I to judge someone's quality of life? Well, there are metrics for that as well. And if you get down to the very human part of it, do most people want to live in circumstances that qualify as ghastly by most standards (terrible pain and discomfort, inability to enjoy food, interact with loved ones, mobilize, manage their own bowel and bladder care, etc.)?
7 people like this.

Reply 16 - Posted by: planetgeo 3/26/2020 2:35:30 PM (No. 358867)
This is the natural extension of the leftist lack of respect for any individual's life, as most prominently confirmed by their fanatical protection of abortion rights. They are now way down the slide to death panels for all sorts of other life-death decisions. "Universal DNR"? Like maybe in Pelosi's next crisis-generated stimulus bill that includes a checkbox for party affiliation perhaps, or "citizen score"? The day they start this is the day We the People need to start our own version of death panels.
13 people like this.

Reply 17 - Posted by: Suzi 3/26/2020 2:38:39 PM (No. 358868)
#14. Such a valid comment and perspective. Once the conversation is had, family's wishes must be honored and every effort must be made to accommodate said decision. It's not that medical professionals like myself want to hasten death. The main goal for me is to open the conversation to ensure intelligent, thoughtful decisions are made. Then, we move forward with partnered goals.
9 people like this.

Reply 18 - Posted by: 4Justice 3/26/2020 2:49:27 PM (No. 358880)
Great, the brave new world is here. Why not euthanize anyone who gets sick? Better yet, let's do Logan's Run and just kill everyone once they turn 30? That will free up the doctors and nurses! From one extreme to another... with the same desired outcome...totalitarian tyranny.
9 people like this.

Reply 19 - Posted by: hurricanegirl 3/26/2020 2:50:52 PM (No. 358882)
Some of you, like the person who has already responded numerous times to this thread, should seriously consider changing your professions. You're pathetic!!! This should be the person's decision and not the hospitals or the doctors . . . and especially not the nurses or EMTs! Again, you should seriously consider doing something else because you've CLEARLY lost all sense of compassion.
10 people like this.

Reply 20 - Posted by: LesUNo 3/26/2020 2:52:55 PM (No. 358886)
Thank you Suzi. You speak for many of us in the medical profession.
7 people like this.

Reply 21 - Posted by: Right Time 3/26/2020 2:54:56 PM (No. 358887)
If DNR applies to reporters and the media, I am all for it!
4 people like this.

Reply 22 - Posted by: tisHimself 3/26/2020 3:02:19 PM (No. 358891)
I'm pretty sure Granny from Winnetka's wishes will be honored. Lou from Cicero, well, nice to know you. She whose name we dare not speak on this site called them "Death Panels" and she was mocked. The leftist/socialists who want to reorder things, they wish to reorder without the Creator, either at conception or exit. Every opportunity to reduce the individual created in God's image to an entity whose existence depends upon not God, but the State. Close Churches. Abortion and infanticide paid for by the state. Either God creates man or man creates God. This crisis is an opportunity to reorient ourselves as a Nation to the Spiritual foundations of this Country and the Providence that has guided us until the commonwealth rejected or sold out that heritage.
8 people like this.

Reply 23 - Posted by: watashiyo 3/26/2020 3:03:40 PM (No. 358892)
Baby Boomer's 30 years longevity bonus...., what to do with them when they reach 100. Many Baby Boomers will outlive their children. What will the people and the government do to them? There won't be enough Hospital and Crematorium in the U.S. to deal with this crisis when the SHTF.
3 people like this.

Reply 24 - Posted by: heartsurgeon 3/26/2020 3:06:38 PM (No. 358895)
Release the hounds! The med-mal lawyers will have a field day with this.
3 people like this.

Reply 25 - Posted by: Newtsche 3/26/2020 3:08:03 PM (No. 358897)
Boomer Dooming by sanctioned and unimpeachable edict.
9 people like this.

Reply 26 - Posted by: Heraclitus 3/26/2020 3:39:09 PM (No. 358936)
Where's Obama when we need his recommendation: blue pill, or red pill?
1 person likes this.

Reply 27 - Posted by: Heraclitus 3/26/2020 3:47:55 PM (No. 358946)
please excuse additional remarks, We shouldn't treat lightly that Biden has as his health adviser, the arch advocate of euthanasia, the advocate for the need to eliminate (a euphemism) anyone over the age of 75 really ought to die. Ezekiel "Zeke" Emanuel.
16 people like this.

Reply 28 - Posted by: WhamDBambam 3/26/2020 5:02:58 PM (No. 359001)
Please tell me the first tier is limited to members of Congress.
3 people like this.

Reply 29 - Posted by: Timber Queen 3/26/2020 5:13:51 PM (No. 359007)
Thank you, Suzi, for your compassion and care for those in their final stages of earthly life; providing them privacy, dignity and comfort For 17 years I have been a Home Communion minister, bringing Christ to our chronically ill and those taking their last steps on the journey back to God. I have witnessed many blessed deaths and I have also seen people utilizing every possible means of medical intervention to extend their lives, then spent in pain and discomfort...and they die anyways. Our modern medical advancements are miracles for a 30-something young mother or a 50-something father, but they can be torture to an 80+ year old...and to what end? This is a spiritual concern as well as medical and financial for the family and society. While I do not agree with government edicts of universal DNR for anyone over a specified age, this is an important issue for all to consider individually, as a family and as a country. The purpose of this life is not to amass wealth or the most days you can possibly squeeze out. It is to know God, love God and serve God with your whole heart, mind and soul. As for me, what my doctors call risks I call opportunities. I'm looking forward to my ticket Home and will forego the heroics. Again, I thank Suzi for bringing this important topic to this thread.
9 people like this.

Reply 30 - Posted by: Jesuslover54 3/26/2020 5:29:30 PM (No. 359029)
So let me understand : We're NOT coding Pelosi, right?
5 people like this.

Reply 31 - Posted by: FormerDem 3/26/2020 5:35:25 PM (No. 359035)
Then why can't people decide for themselves to use chloroquine? Hospitals ultimately have objectives other than the life of the patient. They say so openly. In that case what's the argument for them being gatekeeper of the uncertainly valuable drugs? This is where expertise ends up - Gotta run. And quite OK but in that case leave your medical bag behind so we can use what's in it.
3 people like this.

Reply 32 - Posted by: anniebc 3/26/2020 5:37:19 PM (No. 359039)
Illegal as heck!
5 people like this.

Reply 33 - Posted by: columba 3/26/2020 5:40:30 PM (No. 359041)
There was a time when we looked to our older people with respect.
10 people like this.

Reply 34 - Posted by: YorkieMom 3/26/2020 6:10:08 PM (No. 359069)
Speaking just for myself, I have a DNR because I don’t want to have doctors trying to keep me alive if I’m in terrible pain and there’s no hope of recovering or living in a nursing home being spoon fed and having someone change my Depends. I don’t want to have my children take care of me. I don’t want to outlive my children and grandchildren. I’ve had a wonderful life and look forward to what God has promised us. My children understand this and don’t like to talk about it, but I want them to know I’ll miss them, but we’ll be together again. My siblings and I had to let our parents go when it was their time, and my children will do the same.
3 people like this.

Reply 35 - Posted by: chiller 3/26/2020 6:29:18 PM (No. 359087)
Just debunked by Dr. Birx minutes ago. No evidence says she. Irresponsible says me.
7 people like this.

Reply 36 - Posted by: ZeldaFitzg 3/26/2020 6:38:50 PM (No. 359097)
Some of us need to remember the rules: We post **once** only. We do not call posters by name, but rather refer to their post number.
7 people like this.

Reply 37 - Posted by: Southron 3/26/2020 6:59:47 PM (No. 359120)
Not true! Media falsehood.
1 person likes this.

Reply 38 - Posted by: XCenturion 3/26/2020 7:37:51 PM (No. 359150)
Dear doctors and nurses I appreciate the fact you are exposing yourselves to this contagion but isn't that what you signed on for? Think of the first responders like the police and fire that risk their lives by running toward the shots fired call or running into a burning building. Police and fire personnel don't make the purposeful decision as too who should live or die, so why should you?
1 person likes this.

Reply 39 - Posted by: Lawsy0 3/26/2020 8:22:26 PM (No. 359193)
Boogedy boogedy boo. Scared yet? That was the intent.
1 person likes this.

Reply 40 - Posted by: chumley 3/26/2020 8:53:51 PM (No. 359220)
Please do not send me to a hospital where these killer medics work. I would much rather go somewhere that likes to SAVE lives. What has happened to the medical profession that this is even up for discussion? How far we have fallen.
3 people like this.

Reply 41 - Posted by: DVC 3/26/2020 9:08:01 PM (No. 359229)
Birx said in the Trump news conference that this is pretty much Fake News. The Enemedia trying to stir up panic again.
4 people like this.

Reply 42 - Posted by: ColonialAmerican1623 3/27/2020 1:13:27 AM (No. 359368)
OMG. Some of you frighten me as much as Dr Emanuel and Tom Daschle. I am a senior with several chronic illnesses. I can also run circles around some of you. Step away before someone gets hurt. As that high school drop out says "How dare you?" I will make my own choices. Talk about a lack of empathy.
1 person likes this.

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