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Boeing Mocked Lion Air Calls for
More 737 Max Training Before Crash

Original Article

Posted By: Ribicon, 1/14/2020 4:13:38 PM

Indonesia’s Lion Air considered putting its pilots through simulator training before flying the Boeing Co. 737 Max but abandoned the idea after the planemaker convinced them in 2017 it was unnecessary, according to people familiar with the matter and internal company communications. The next year, 189 people died when a Lion Air 737 Max plunged into the Java Sea, a disaster blamed in part on inadequate training and the crew’s unfamiliarity with a new flight-control feature on the Max that malfunctioned. Boeing employees had expressed alarm among themselves over the possibility that one of the company’s largest customers might require its pilots


Instead of going to prison, former Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg walked away with a parting gift worth some $80 million. This despite selling an aircraft with a feature where it wants to crash itself, software upgrade sold separately, and training discouraged because that would raise the cost. Obscene financial arrangements like this give the Marxists traction.

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Reply 1 - Posted by: PlayItAgain 1/14/2020 4:30:42 PM (No. 288573)
“These documents do not represent the best of Boeing,” Greg Smith, the company’s interim CEO, said in a message to employees Friday (snip) and they do not reflect who we are as a company or the culture we’ve created.” I've worked with Boeing as a customer several times. They are all know-it-alls. Some are nice people, yes. But their culture makes it clear to everyone that they expect to be treated as the smartest people in the room.
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Reply 2 - Posted by: inspectorudy 1/14/2020 6:00:08 PM (No. 288652)
Boeing was certainly wrong but Lion Air was so deficient in maintenance and pilot training that I am not sure anything would have saved that plane. When they crashed the two throttles were in the wide-open position! That would be like having a problem in your car and forgetting to take your foot off of the gas pedal while working on the problem. BYW, all that speed made the forces much greater on the controls. Nevermind that the solution to the problem is the same as it has been on the 737 for over 50 years. It is called a "Runaway trim" problem and there are many ways to stop it. On either steering yoke thee are two switches that when clicked off will stop it. There two switches just below the two throttles that will stop it also. Neither pilot tried to do that. Why?
6 people like this.

Reply 3 - Posted by: DVC 1/14/2020 6:25:20 PM (No. 288676)
The aircraft had a broken critical part that the 3rd world maintenance staff failed to replace. And the pilots were so unskilled that they couldn't deal with what was effectively a runaway trim situation, something that has been one of the "known failure modes" of essentially all large aircraft since about the middle 1950s. Too many ignorant media types mouthing off about something that they don't understand.
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Reply 4 - Posted by: davew 1/14/2020 6:35:15 PM (No. 288682)
Lion Air may have wanted their pilots to get more 737 Max sim time but that wouldn't have had any effect on the eventual crash. There is no specific training related to the MCAS since the whole point of this software was to make the 737 Max feel exactly like the 737 the pilots already were flying and familiar with. The runaway stabilizer trim emergency training should have been part of their normal certification checklist flight training in the 737 which they should have been current on but apparently were not.
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Reply 5 - Posted by: Texastealady 1/14/2020 8:19:05 PM (No. 288733)
If you want a mesmerizing UTube site re: watch crash & near crashes on "The Flight Channel" - it's extremely well done with NO narrator - just flight simulations, captain, co-captain & flight engineer's experience when there is one and well, it's just fascinating. Might make you fly less often but I've personally been on 2 - yes, 2 near crashes - foamed runway, steward's crying, etc. Oh well! I still fly but only when necessary..... See if you can watch just one - Boeing 737 unfortunately is featured fairly often.
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Reply 6 - Posted by: Rumblehog 1/15/2020 1:33:52 AM (No. 288840)
It is NEVER the responsibility of the aircraft manufacturer to train airline pilots in simulators, either static or full-motion types, as that's the full responsibility of the airline they work for. As #3 says, there was a chain of failure in these crashes, and most of it involved third-world maintenance and unskilled pilots being allowed to fly $100 million passenger jets. Boeing knows more about building airplanes than the reporters who write articles about things they know nothing about.
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