US woman charged with the death of
UK teen despite diplomatic immunity
Hot Air,
by
John Sexton
Original Article
Posted By: Pluperfect,
12/21/2019 3:39:59 AM
When teen motorcyclist Harry Dunn was killed in a road accident in the UK in August, his parents assumed the person responsible would go to jail. But it turned out the person responsible was an American, the wife of an intelligence officer working at an RAF military base. Three weeks after Dunn’s death, Ann Sacoolas returned to the United States claiming diplomatic immunity. Dunn’s parents have since been to the US to call for her return and even met with President Trump. Despite the fact that case is unlikely to be resolved, the Crown Prosecution Service has charged Sacoolas and started extradition proceedings:
Reply 1 - Posted by:
GO3 12/21/2019 7:04:09 AM (No. 268192)
Someone needs to explain why Ann has diplomatic immunity. I know of no spouse of an intel officer who has diplomatic immunity. Her husband may be traveling with an official passport, but is she? And anyway, I wouldn't classify her husband as a diplomat either since he 's not State Dept. This seems like so much IC concocted crap designed to muddy the waters. There are a whole bunch of agreements between our two governments concerning sensitive personnel and the Crown Protection Service wouldn't charge her on a whim without due consideration of said agreements.
5 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
watashiyo 12/21/2019 7:09:33 AM (No. 268194)
I am truly sorry for the victim's family. This will not end well for Sacoolas.
4 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
lakerman1 12/21/2019 8:19:44 AM (No. 268247)
True story.
Three of us from Weisbaden Air Base, Germany, 1959, working in the flight surgeon's office, did flight physicals for a General and his crew who were assigned to the Military Air Assistance Group (MAAG) in Den Hague Holland. He invited us to fly back to Den Hague on his C 47, for the week end., flying back on Monday. We did the town, got drunk, and I was driving the General's aide's car - he was a SSGT.
We were stopped by the police, and I would have gone directly to jail, except when I handed them the registration on the car, (a big old Packard!) the police apologized to me. Diplomatic immunity from the SSGT somehow extended to me. Or the police thought I was the SSGT.
Either way, diplomatic immunity exists for reasons well founded in international relations.
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Reply 4 - Posted by:
DVC 12/21/2019 8:51:53 AM (No. 268284)
I have driven in England many times, and in South Africa, most recently in September for two weeks. IMO, she needs to be subjected to the legal processes in England because she very negligently killed this person.
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Reply 5 - Posted by:
Rumblehog 12/21/2019 9:51:06 AM (No. 268367)
Extradite her. Her husband wasn't a diplomat and she's not above the law.
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Reply 6 - Posted by:
czechlist 12/21/2019 10:10:34 AM (No. 268386)
Unless the offence committed would not be recognized as a crime in a civilized society ( pulling wings off of flies) the perpertrator should be subject to the punishments set ( recall the canings in Indonesia?).
I understand that diplomatic immunity extends so low as non payment of parking tickets.
1 person likes this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
GO3 12/21/2019 10:59:33 AM (No. 268432)
#5, what you describe is a SOFA (status fo forces agreement) not diplomatic immunity - big difference. In my experience, foreign law enforcement has several things to consider among them are SOFA, jurisdiction, and who is the good guy. In the former West Germany, I was accused of hitting the car of a commie Czech visitor, when he actually it me. I was on duty, operating the vehicle legally, and frankly, the polizei were not predisposed to give a commie a break. After a brief on the spot investigation they let me go. OTOH, SOFA didn't save a GI who committed a capital offense and got caught outside the gate of the US installation. After conviction they locked him up for 40 years with no possibility of parole.
I would say if Ann isn't extradited to answer for the charges, the British government should just make it official and png her (persona non grata) and possibly her husband too for pulling this diplomatic immunity stuff.
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Reply 8 - Posted by:
MDConservative 12/21/2019 11:17:26 AM (No. 268452)
SOFA does not protect service members from host country prosecution for crimes committed off base, if the host country prosecutes. If the host country declines, it will move into the military justice system. The US Military Confinement Center (prison) near Mannheim was full of soldiers in the good old days awaiting trial in German courts for their crimes. If convicted and jailed, they would be imprisoned by the Germans after the US military authorities cut ties.
Diplomatic immunity does not simply include diplomats. In this case, there was an agreement that included certain US personnel at this RAF base. That extends to family so that the host country cannot grab a spouse or child to hold for advantage.
Like it or not, negligent or whatever, Ann Sacoolas had better not leave the US for anywhere - that country may have an extradition treaty with UK, and she's wanted. On the other hand, it would be difficult for the UK to seriously demand extradition of one with diplomatic immunity - that sword cuts both ways, and this would be a hard precedent to ignore. Of course, what's hypocrisy these days?
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Reply 9 - Posted by:
lakerman1 12/21/2019 12:37:32 PM (No. 268549)
second post apologies, But, #9, when the SSGT gave us the keys to his car, he gave us an envelope with paperwork in it, which the police examined.. I'm pretty sure he told us, when we returned his Packard and explained what happened, he said it was diplomatic immunity. The MAAG is attached to the American Embassy, so that makes sense.
(I'm familiar with the Status Of Forces Agreements, having been assigned in France, Germany, and England, and each one had a different set of rules.)
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Reply 10 - Posted by:
GO3 12/21/2019 1:22:40 PM (No. 268591)
#11, yes that does make sense now.
#12, not to disagree, but I cannot find anywhere in the article where there is an agreement granting her diplomatic immunity. As to how far (or low in rank) diplomatic immunity goes it seems rather open ended to me. The gist of the article is that she claimed diplomatic immunity, and then it states she gets it through her husband. Where does it end? The GI I spoke of and the ones you mentioned certainly didn't have immunity. So my basic conclusion is the same. The Crown Protection Service analyzed the legalities and then charged her anyway.
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Reply 11 - Posted by:
Penny Spencer 12/21/2019 1:35:19 PM (No. 268601)
Clearly, there are those here who don't understand the illegality of driving on the wrong side of the road, in this case, on the right. Hardly "inadvertent" when one actually lives in a country where everyone drives on the left. Sacoolas deserves to be prosecuted; she certainly would be if the accident had happened on home soil. That would not be vengeance. It would be justice. Unfortunately, international law is on her side.
3 people like this.
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