Post New Article

Boat where 34 died was a 'fire
trap' despite passing inspections,
experts say. It's far from alone

Original Article

Posted By: NorthernDog, 9/8/2019 9:58:12 AM

LOS ANGELES — A day of diving off Santa Cruz Island ended like countless others aboard the Conception, with dozens of divers asleep in tightly arranged bunks that all but filled the belly of the 75-foot boat. As always, there were two ways out in case of emergency — up a curved stairway at the front of the cabin, or through an escape hatch in the ceiling over bunks at the rear. Before dawn on Labor Day, when flames devoured the 38-year-old wooden-hulled vessel, no one below deck made it out of either exit. The only survivors were five crew members who

Comments:

Many other boats have similar design, including cramped quarters and narrow escape routes. It was a disaster waiting to happen.

Post Reply

Reply 1 - Posted by: Chuzzles 9/8/2019 10:13:48 AM (No. 174511)
The Titanic met the safety standards of the day too. They didn't have enough life boats. Well they did after that disaster. If the coast guard inspected this boat and didn't require more hatches added, this tragedy is on them and congress for allowing a fire trap situation. Do people really want to go diving so badly that they do not use good judgment as well?
5 people like this.

Reply 2 - Posted by: karo 9/8/2019 10:20:32 AM (No. 174516)
The flaw in this boat's design is that both lower-deck exits (the stairway and the escape hatch) led to the middle deck, which was engulfed in fire. Having to escape into the source of danger is a terrible thing.
9 people like this.

Reply 3 - Posted by: Rumblehog 9/8/2019 10:27:43 AM (No. 174522)
Where would we be without "experts" who show up as talking heads on CNN after such tragedies?
15 people like this.

Reply 4 - Posted by: earlybird 9/8/2019 11:13:25 AM (No. 174585)
I agree with #3. As someone who has been on boats of many sizes over the years, I was never on one I’d deem completely “safe”. Quarters are cramped. Living aboard is quite different from living in your own home. But so is “living aboard” a train, a plane, an RV. The reaon many other boats have similar designs is that that is the way boats work best. I suppose everyone could tool around on large, home sized barges with front and back doors, but boats really don’t work very well that way. People sleep below decks. Those who read the full article will find comparisons to Coast Guard boats where the crew members sleep in 3-tier bunks - in very crowded areas. The bunk room was actually quite long - it and the shower room made up all of the below deck area exept for the engine compartment, which was under the afterdeck. The galley and the bunk room were stacked; the bridge was another layer on top of the galley. I couldn’t see this article other than in Reading format. If it displayed the illustrations of the boat that I saw in the Times, they were so wrong it was pathetic. People who do not enjoy the water are great on saying that divers should have better sense, sailors should have better sense, those who choose to live in places where natural disasters occur from time to time should know better. Everyone should stay absolutely safe by living where the experts say they should and only doing recreations that are safe, bla bla bla bla I would have said that those who go on boats should have a weight/girth limit. Fat people do not belong on boats. They are doomed because passageways will always be too narrow, the standard size hatches like Conception’s 24x24 hatch will always be too small for them, the narrow stairs will always be too diffficult. I don’t know how some of those people managed to get into those bunks. Or any bunks, anywhere. The truthful in this article say that it was unlikely that passengers could have evacuated because they were almost immediately asphyxiated by in haling noxious smoke. Carbon monoxide. (And that can happen in your own home. Ask your local firefighters.) Everything in life is a disaster waiting to happen. Think about it.
14 people like this.

Reply 5 - Posted by: LeftCoast 9/8/2019 12:40:37 PM (No. 174679)
#4 I was agreeing w/ your comments until you unnecessarily "went low" like Moochelle to keep "fat" people off boats. That thinking is wrong and offensive on so many levels. Would you be the self-imposed "Heinrich Himmler" as the head of the "Fat Police". Would you stop at just boats? I've been diving since 1967 and never had an issue with "fat" people enjoying themselves on a dive boat. I use to dive w/ a guy (btw on the Conception) who you would refer to as fat and dollar to doughnuts you couldn't keep up w/ him. He also had a hole in his wet suit that water would shoot from like a whale's blowhole when he got back on the boat. Very funny guy. I would've enjoyed the show if you tried to stop him from crossing the gangplank.
4 people like this.

Reply 6 - Posted by: jhpeters2 9/8/2019 1:39:35 PM (No. 174711)
This article like several I have read about this tragedy don't delve into smoke detection. The 5 crew members survived. They were on the 3rd deck. Caught by surprise. Smoke detectors should have been howling long before the ship burst into flame. The detectors will alarm at the slightest amount of smoke, like a slowly smouldering fire. Did anybody on board hear an alarm? If the crew heard the sirens what did they do next? Did the detectors work? If not why not? I don't expect answers to these questions from the drive by media.
4 people like this.

Reply 7 - Posted by: earlybird 9/8/2019 2:36:11 PM (No. 174761)
Re #5, no intention to offend anyone, I believe that fat persons - as nice as they may be, as able to dive as they may be - are generally less able to move quickly on a boat, get around a boat and its narrow, confined spaces, through a 24x24” emergency hatch, up narrow stairs that were essentially a nearly vertical ladder - in case of an emergency. Their girth makes these moves more difficult, if not impossible, and they certainly take longer. As for the Moochelle - Heinrich Himmler - Fat Police references, a rather cheap shot. I’ll stick with my original reply. Fat people do not belong on boats. In case of emergency their girth is a hindrance to their safety and the safety of others. Did your amusing friend do OK with emergency hatches? 24x24 is pretty standard as is over bunk placement.
2 people like this.

Reply 8 - Posted by: LeftCoast 9/8/2019 3:33:18 PM (No. 174795)
Earlybird, you're right. The Moochelle reference was a cheap shot for which I'll retract.
0 people like this.

Reply 9 - Posted by: Bluefindad 9/8/2019 3:50:14 PM (No. 174807)
Not a diver, but I've bunked on many overnight and multi-day fishing boats on the west coast with very similar berthing arrangements. Always given a safety lecture before departure explaining the location of the fire escape hatch in the berthing area. I always understood that escape would be fairly unlikely in the dark, smoke-filled room in the event of a fire. That's the way it is. Going to sea is worth the risk. One thing is puzzling though - as pointed out by another poster - where were the smoke detectors? Also, how could the fire spread so fast? These things will be the focus of the investigation and hopefully, some corrections will be made. I believe that most Coast Guard regs are written in blood. One more thing - as for the fat comments above - I've fished with people with prosthetics and various handicaps that prevent them from moving quickly. Should they be excluded? Using the same logic, should fat people be excluded from air travel? Trains? Buses? - because they don't move fast enough in an emergency? Try to remember, the passengers are not military or athletes. They are people out for a memorable experience. The tragedy of the Conception was an extreme rarity. Thousands of excursions in similar boats set sail every year and he number of accidental deaths is very, very small.
1 person likes this.

Reply 10 - Posted by: IowaMarinesDad 9/8/2019 5:01:01 PM (No. 174848)
This is one of the many reasons I like this site. Two people can disagree without tearing each other apart. Go to some other sites and it's a blood sport. Not that some don't deserve it. LOL
2 people like this.

Reply 11 - Posted by: tom7 9/9/2019 9:12:27 AM (No. 175255)
Another prosecution of the innocent. With no evidence of any crime, the full punitive force of the federal bureaucracy is unleashed on the hapless owners of the boat. The feds will destroy some lives, pat themselves on the back, and go back to the office to complain about the smelly people at Walmart.
0 people like this.

Below, you will find ...
Most Recent Articles posted by "NorthernDog"
and
Most Active Articles (last 48 hours)
Most Recent Articles posted by NorthernDog"
A Joe Biden presidency would
be a climate catastrophe
3 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/9/2019 2:14:41 PM Post Reply
What would a Joe Biden presidency look like? The answer to that question is coming into focus, and it can be summed up in one word: tired. Biden is trudging through the campaign, constantly screwing up and lying about his record, winning almost entirely thanks to the Pundit Brain-induced learned helplessness that has been carefully instilled into the Democratic base over the years. Biden may yet win the primary, of course, and sheer backlash to President Trump could easily boost him into the White House. But it is simply beyond question that he is one of the worst candidates in
The USDA relocation to Kansas
City is ripping apart the lives of its
employees. Here are some of their stories.
71 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/8/2019 5:05:41 PM Post Reply
Randi Johnson raised the picture of her dead son’s football team. “What am I supposed to do with this?” she asked, tucking it back inside a growing pile of cardboard boxes in her torn-apart living room. “And these are videos of his mission trip to Mexico. I don’t have anything to play them on, but I can’t throw them away.” (Snip) The USDA will partially relocate to Kansas City at the end of September, an abrupt decision announced in June that shocked the federal workforce and meant immediate disruption for hundreds. The relocation to Missouri, which the USDA estimates will
In NH, Biden lacks enthusiasm
to match front-runner status
6 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/8/2019 1:38:52 PM Post Reply
MANCHESTER, N.H. — When Joe Biden took the stage in New Hampshire, he was greeted with the respect that comes with being a former vice president. Some of his closest rivals were greeted more like rock stars. The scene at New Hampshire's Democratic convention on Saturday highlighted one of the riddles of Biden's candidacy: He maintains a lead in nearly every poll, but his campaign events often lack the look and feel of a front-runner. His crowds are warm, but rarely high-energy. His organization is solid, but doesn't always show up in force at key events that help shape the perceptions
Boat where 34 died was a 'fire
trap' despite passing inspections,
experts say. It's far from alone
11 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/8/2019 9:58:12 AM Post Reply
LOS ANGELES — A day of diving off Santa Cruz Island ended like countless others aboard the Conception, with dozens of divers asleep in tightly arranged bunks that all but filled the belly of the 75-foot boat. As always, there were two ways out in case of emergency — up a curved stairway at the front of the cabin, or through an escape hatch in the ceiling over bunks at the rear. Before dawn on Labor Day, when flames devoured the 38-year-old wooden-hulled vessel, no one below deck made it out of either exit. The only survivors were five crew members who
A look at the shattered Zimbabwe
that Mugabe left as leader
11 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/8/2019 8:15:36 AM Post Reply
HARARE, Zimbabwe — Robert Mugabe took a country shining with the promise of independence and left it economically shattered and in the grip of repression — and yet Zimbabwe continued to crumble so badly after his downfall that some of its people began openly missing his nearly four-decade rule. The newly christened Zimbabwe was the pride of southern Africa at its independence in 1980, the breadbasket of the region and the latest symbol of victory in the continent's long fight against colonialism. Mugabe was a liberation leader who reassured some by making gestures of reconciliation toward the country's white residents. It didn't
Kimberley Strassel: 2020 Dems
vowing to 'kill every coal job, every
oil and gas job' with climate goals
6 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/7/2019 8:41:25 PM Post Reply
Wall Street Journal columnist Kimberley Strassel warned on Saturday that 2020 Democratic candidates' climate proposals could cause the loss of millions of jobs. "When you talk about banning fracking. When you talk about a carbon-free economy by 2030 or 2050, you are saying 'we are going to kill every coal job in the country, every oil and gas job, all of the shipping jobs that they do -- we're talking about millions of positions," Strassel said during the "The Journal Editorial Report." "That is not a vote-getter out at the polls," she said. Strassel speculated that progressives, upset with the Democratic
Can the F-Bomb Save Beto? 11 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/7/2019 7:36:59 PM Post Reply
The surprise attack on Hawaii came on a quiet Sunday morning, and it fell to the president of the United States to rally a confused and stricken nation one day later in a momentous address to Congress: “Yesterday, Dec. 7, 1941—a date which will live as totally f*cked up—the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by the naval and air forces of Japan.” That’s the power of language at work. And who can forget the image of an American commander in chief in Berlin on the front lines of the Cold War: “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this
Seattle Might Ban New Homes and
Buildings From Using Natural Gas
28 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/7/2019 2:34:25 PM Post Reply
The Seattle Times reports that Seattle's city council is considering legislation which would ban all new homes and buildings within city limits from using natural gas, and mandating that these edifices must use electric heating and cooking. Councilmember Mike O’Brien will likely introduce the legislation next week. If passed, it is expected that the regulations will go in effect next summer. "We know that some people rely on natural gas at home and on the natural-gas industry for jobs, so we want to be thoughtful about how we transition," O'Brien said. "But in the meantime, let’s not continue to make
Top Biden backer warns he’s at
risk of losing New Hampshire
3 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/7/2019 11:57:39 AM Post Reply
LACONIA, N.H. — One of Joe Biden’s most high-profile supporters in New Hampshire warned the candidate during a one-on-one exchange Friday that he and his campaign need to make immediate changes to win the first-in-the-nation primary. Lou D’Allesandro, the longest-serving state senator and highest-ranking elected official in the state who’s endorsed Biden, spoke with the candidate before a town hall event here. D’Allesandro was blunt in his advice: Listen more. Talk less. Answer succinctly. Get your campaign operation organized. “I told him that he’s gotta energize his speeches, and they need to be shorter and more to the point,” D’Allesandro
Maine set to become first state to allow
ranked voting in presidential election
8 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/7/2019 9:52:00 AM Post Reply
Maine is poised to become the first state in the country to implement a system allowing voters to rank candidates in presidential elections. Democratic Gov. Janet Mills said Friday she would allow the bill to become law without her signature in January 2020, which means that the system won't be used in the state's March 3 presidential primary. Instead, the bill won't take effect until 90 days after the next legislative session adjourns in April or May. Ranked voting in Maine was approved by voters in 2016 but only used for federal races and primaries. The system was the subject
Family comes first: Japan to switch
order of names in victory for tradition
9 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/7/2019 9:35:22 AM Post Reply
TOKYO - Japan aims to change the way Japanese names are written in English by putting the family name first, the same way they are written in Japanese, in a triumph for conservatives keen to preserve traditional ways in a fast-changing world. Education Minister Masahiko Shibayama proposed the change to Cabinet ministers on Friday and the government will now study how to implement it, the top government spokesman said. “It is better to follow the Japanese tradition when Japanese names are written in the Roman alphabet,” Shibayama said, according to the Kyodo news agency. “It has become increasingly important for
Amid the rising tide of "gaffes," Joe
Biden looks less electable every day
4 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/5/2019 8:47:35 PM Post Reply
Is former Vice President Joe Biden's "electability" argument weakening? From the beginning of his 2020 campaign, Biden has banked his nomination chances not on arguing that he's the best candidate, either in terms of policy or enthusiasm, but that he is the only one "safe" enough to run against Donald Trump in the general election. Coasting on his association with the wildly popular Barack Obama, Biden's strategy has been to appeal to skittish Democratic voters who might not themselves have much personal zeal for the former veep, but who believe he won't scare off those fragile working-class white voters in
Most Active Articles (last 48 hours)
The USDA relocation to Kansas
City is ripping apart the lives of its
employees. Here are some of their stories.
71 replies
Posted by NorthernDog 9/8/2019 5:05:41 PM Post Reply
Randi Johnson raised the picture of her dead son’s football team. “What am I supposed to do with this?” she asked, tucking it back inside a growing pile of cardboard boxes in her torn-apart living room. “And these are videos of his mission trip to Mexico. I don’t have anything to play them on, but I can’t throw them away.” (Snip) The USDA will partially relocate to Kansas City at the end of September, an abrupt decision announced in June that shocked the federal workforce and meant immediate disruption for hundreds. The relocation to Missouri, which the USDA estimates will
Mark Sanford announces GOP
presidential bid: ‘We have lost our way’
47 replies
Posted by M2 9/8/2019 10:57:21 AM Post Reply
Former South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford on Sunday announced he will challenge Donald Trump for the Republican Party’s presidential nomination in 2020, becoming the third member of his party to do so. Sanford, in an interview on “Fox News Sunday,” said he believes the GOP needs to have a conversation about what it means to be a Republican, adding: “We have lost our way.” The former governor, who was also a congressman from 1995 to 2001 and 2013 to 2019, highlighted in particular a need to discuss the country’s ballooning debt and deficits, as well as Trump’s turn toward trade protectionism. “One of the hallmarks of the Republican
O’Rourke: El Paso Shooting Came
‘At the Invitation of Our President’
35 replies
Posted by Imright 9/8/2019 11:26:31 AM Post Reply
Beto O'Rourke (D.) accused President Donald Trump of inviting mass shootings during an appearance Saturday at the New Hampshire Democratic Party State Convention.The former Texas congressman said the El Paso shooter, who killed 22 people, was a product of America's racist culture and Trump's racist rhetoric."This person drove 600 miles with that hatred, really at the invitation of our president, and opened fire with that AK-47 on innocent people in a Walmart, killing 22 of them and grievously wounding many dozens more," O'Rourke said.
How ‘Trump Trauma’ could hand
the Democrats a victory in 2020
31 replies
Posted by Gertrude 9/8/2019 1:28:22 PM Post Reply
There were more red warning flags flapping around the Oval Office last week than on the Atlantic beaches of Florida. Hurricane Dorian may have given the Sunshine State a miss, but Typhoon Trump is still huffing and puffing to blow his electoral chances out to sea. Back during the Bubba era, there was something known as “Clinton Fatigue,” occasioned by an endless parade of tawdry scandals, so many it was hard to keep track of them: sex, money, foreign influence and even the occasional mysterious demise or two — not to mention impeachment.
Democrat Beto O’Rourke: Americans Will
Gladly Turn Over their Guns (Video)
26 replies
Posted by Imright 9/9/2019 10:39:20 AM Post Reply
For weeks Democrats like Beto O’Rourke have been talking about banning and confiscating guns from US gunowners. (Photo) Beto says he will force Americans to turn in their AR-15s. (Tweet/Video) This past weekend Beto told Democrats at the New Hampshire Democratic Party Convention that he will buy back guns from Americans and they will gladly turn them over. Wow. (Tweet) For the record, the Second Amendment is still a constitutional right.
The Trayvon Hoax That Divided America
Is About to Be Exposed
25 replies
Posted by Magnante 9/9/2019 5:22:34 AM Post Reply
On Monday. September 16, Joel Gilbert will preview his new documentary, “The Trayvon Hoax,” in the 500-seat Ballroom of the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. The screening begins at 1 p.m. Admission is free, and Gilbert is encouraging all interested parties to come see for themselves what could be a game-changer in the way the media report racially-charged news. Gilbert’s findings are that significant. (snip) he has unearthed a legal fraud the likes of which I know no parallel. Not only has Gilbert discovered it, but he has also proved it six ways from Sunday, including DNA and handwriting analysis.
Bill Maher: "Being Fat Is A Bad Thing";
When Did It Become Taboo To
Talk About Getting Healthy?
25 replies
Posted by M2 9/8/2019 6:51:20 AM Post Reply
Bill Maher addressed the obesity epidemic in a monologue he delivered Friday night at the end of his program 'Real Time' on HBO. Maher criticized the culture that protects people from judging others, especially when it comes to "fat-shaming." Maher said fat-shaming doesn't need to end, it needs to make a comeback. The comedian said shaming and judging are necessary and the first step in reform. "I know this is a controversial thing to say now in today's America but being fat is a bad thing," Maher said. "We shouldn't taunt people about it. And overeating shouldn't be singled out as the only vice. It isn't. We all have something.
Klobuchar: Trump treats foreign policy
'like some kind of game show'
23 replies
Posted by M2 9/8/2019 11:06:12 AM Post Reply
Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), a 2020 presidential contender, hit President Trump over his announcement he had canceled a secret meeting with Taliban and Afghanistan leaders at Camp David. "It is another example of the president treating foreign policy like some kind of game show. It's not a game show, these are terrorists," Klobuchar said Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union." Trump announced Saturday on Twitter that he had canceled a meeting with the organization that that had secretly been planned to take place at Camp David ahead of the 18th anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
Report: Hillary Clinton Working Behind
The Scenes With Elizabeth Warren
22 replies
Posted by Imright 9/8/2019 10:45:47 AM Post Reply
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren are reportedly developing a close political friendship that might prove pivotal to deciding the Democratic presidential nomination. Both have kept in touch since Warren announced her decision to seek the Democratic nomination last February, NBC News reported Saturday.One source close to NBC told the media outlet that the two had conversed at least once since Warren’s announcement, while another could recall a recent, substantive conversation that was “front of mind.”
Tlaib Calls for a ‘Political Revolution’
and Complete Transformation of
Political System
20 replies
Posted by Imright 9/9/2019 5:17:26 PM Post Reply
Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) called for a “political revolution” in America and expressed her desire to “completely transform” the U.S. political and economic system in a tweet posted Saturday. “We have to make the tough, courageous changes that completely transform a political and economic system that is now built for corporations (and profits), not people,” Tlaib wrote. “Choosing the status quo means doing nothing and giving up. We need a political revolution,” she added in a call reminiscent of Sen. Bernie Sanders’ (I-VT) political pleas.(Tweet)
National Weather Service director praises Birmingham staff who contradicted Trump 20 replies
Posted by Mad Dog 9/9/2019 4:39:22 PM Post Reply
The top official at the National Weather Service broke ranks and praised the Birmingham office for accurately forecasting Hurricane Dorian in the face of President Trump inaccurately warning Alabama could get hit hard by the storm.Days after the release of an unsigned statement from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the parent agency of the National Weather Service, rebuking the Birmingham office, NWS Director Louis Uccellini said the weather station acted appropriately in combating what they thought were "rumors" on Sept. 1 about Dorian.
Harrowing moment hooded man holds dying
accomplice who 'accidentally blasted
himself with his own shotgun in car
attack that went fatally wrong'—in
horrific glimpse of Lawless London
as murder toll hits 104 this year
20 replies
Posted by Ribicon 9/9/2019 12:12:15 PM Post Reply
Shocking footage shows a man lying in a London street yesterday afternoon amid claims he may have accidentally shot himself with his own gun. The man died outside a Lloyds Bank in Sydenham, south London shortly before 4pm. Police say they are still investigating how he was injured but witnesses say there was an altercation before he accidentally shot himself with a shotgun.(Snip) The Sydenham shooting was one of three violent deaths in the capital in just 12 hours yesterday. A woman was later stabbed to death before a man was shot dead in Kentish Town in the north of the capital.
Post New Article