Ethiopian Airlines Had a Max 8 Simulator, but Pilot on Doomed Flight Didn’t Receive Training On It
New York Times,
by
Selam Gebrekidan
Original Article
Posted By: earlybird,
3/21/2019 3:24:32 PM
ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia — Ethiopian Airlines surpassed many carriers by becoming one of the first to install a simulator to teach pilots how to fly the new Boeing 737 Max 8, but the captain of the doomed Flight 302 never trained on the simulator, according to people close to the airline’s operations. The people, who spoke on condition of anonymity because Ethiopian Airlines had not authorized disclosure of the information, said the carrier had the Max 8 simulator up and running in January, two months before Flight 302 crashed.
Reply 1 - Posted by:
Nimby 3/21/2019 3:31:33 PM (No. 8394)
So, there was no training, yet the blame game on Boeing? Wouldn´t the issue be fair and square on Ethiopian Airlines?
30 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
JunkYardDog 3/21/2019 3:32:41 PM (No. 8382)
My grandma used to cover her good living room furniture in plastic so it wouldn´t get dirty-and the result was that no one used it ever. Maybe the Ethiopians felt that way about their new toy?
29 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
Catfur27 3/21/2019 4:00:49 PM (No. 8393)
2 plane crashes...hmmmm....both on third world airlines...with third world pilots... leaving third world airports ...and third would ground crews....??....but it´s Boeing´s fault!!
27 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
Flagstone 3/21/2019 4:12:59 PM (No. 8383)
And both flights also had issues on previous trips and were not repaired. Specifically Lion Air crash would have crashed the day before except for an experienced pilot flying in the jump seat who actually knew the emergency check list. Yet, the next day the plane took off.... but Boeing.
24 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
comstock 3/21/2019 4:43:38 PM (No. 8386)
The pilots on the doomed Lion Air flight did not appear to understand why the jet was tipping downward and how to correct that problem. One flipped through a technical manual, and the other began to pray, according to the cockpit voice recording.
The 737 Max is a completely different airplane compared to a vanilla 737. Different flight characteristics. Different Center of Gravity, different engine responses, different computer systems, etc. All Max pilots should be required to qualify on it like it´s a new airplane. And the simulator should include recovery from an MCAS malfunction.
24 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
Bur Oak 3/21/2019 5:13:52 PM (No. 8384)
Not only do you need a simulator but you need trained simulator instructors.
18 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
DVC 3/21/2019 5:32:26 PM (No. 8389)
Hmm. NO sim time? Yikes.
That is not good, in fact that is very bad. A close friend for the last 30+ years is a retired airline pilot, used to run the simulator for his airline.
The primary benefit of simulator time is that a good sim operator throws a lot of emergencies, especially oddball emergencies, at the pilot, and if they fail, they "Crash" the simulator, and nobody dies. Go back and do it over until they figure it out. After a bunch of sim time, they are much better pilots, ESPECIALLY IN EMERGENCIES.
3rd world airlines, fly at your own risk.
15 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
bad-hair 3/21/2019 5:59:34 PM (No. 8387)
They can at least put sim pilots in the same position and see if they crash. As a pilot my FIRST inclination would be Shut Off The Autopilot and fly.
19 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
watashiyo 3/21/2019 10:45:38 PM (No. 8388)
Most of Southwest A/L planes are Max 8 and yet, not a single crash. WHY?!
8 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
Rumblehog 3/22/2019 12:08:18 AM (No. 8392)
This will end up being all about third-world hellhole countries and their pathetically poor pilot training.
9 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
DVC 3/22/2019 12:21:14 AM (No. 8390)
#9, that is not factual. Only 35 of 750ish of 737s in the SW fleet are Max 8 subvariants.
I have a friend, who has moved out of town, so I don´t see too often anymore who flies for SW Airlines and has flown the Max 8, according to his FIL, a retired pilot from another airlines. Have not talked to him about it yet.
8 people like this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
DVC 3/22/2019 12:33:35 AM (No. 8391)
#10, very likely, you are right. However, I suspect that Boeing may be interested in actually trying to take some blame here to try to avoid angering too many 3rd world customers by putting the full blame where it really should be.
It may make better business sense in the long run for Boeing to accept a little blame for something like "not requiring adequate transition training for a more complex variant" and then fiddle a little bit of software around as a "fix" and then offer the extra training as a mandatory package with each order.
I think there IS an issue with the MCAS having more authority than was needed, or possibly even intended, and that may need to be limited so even if it fails and the semi-skilled pilot can´t figure it out, it can be over come easily.
But I agree with you, the root cause is very likely poor pilot skills with a new airplane that has a quirk that they didn´t understand....unless it was just poor maintenance and the aircraft should have never been flying at all without necessary equipment functioning.
6 people like this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
Rumblehog 3/22/2019 11:25:47 AM (No. 8385)
I know very little about the Max 8 Flight Controls specifically, so I´m at a loss for details, but ALL commercial aircraft have force disconnects at the control column to disengage the autopilot and trim systems and to put Flight Control Computers into manual mode. There is no way these guys were under the control of some "software monster" that killed them. FCC software is way way way too heavily tested in the lab and every power up to be at fault here.
Occam´s Razor: It is far more likely they had no clue how to get out of a stall (lacked stall-recovery training in small high-wing piston aircraft) and then began doing things to make the situation worse. And again, the last words of the First Officer on the Cockpit Voice Recorder were, "Allahu Akbar."
5 people like this.
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