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When the Shooting Starts, Would You Go In?
Aspen Times, by Glenn Beaton

Original Article

Posted By:Big bopper, 3/18/2018 10:35:10 AM

Armed sheriff´s deputies appeared on the scene of the recent school massacre in Florida while kids were still being murdered inside. But the deputies failed to storm the building to apprehend the killer, to rescue the assaulted, to stop the bleeding and to comfort the dying. They failed to do their jobs. Instead, they cowered behind their patrol cars waiting for, well, apparently waiting for the shooting to stop. Some 150 bullets and 17 lives later, it finally did and the killer walked away. Only then did the deputies enter the building. About that, President Donald Trump characteristically said what he thought. He

Comments:
Interersting question to ask oneself.

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: Jacksin5, 3/18/2018 11:08:31 AM     (No. 11575595)

Human beings are wired, in times of danger, or stress, with what is known as the "Fight or Flight" response.

Many people have no idea how they would react until confronted which such a scenario.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: Jed, 3/18/2018 11:12:51 AM     (No. 11575599)

In a heartbeat, have ran into danger more than a few times

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.New_S.
  


 
Reply 3 - Posted by: volksford, 3/18/2018 11:16:22 AM     (No. 11575601)

Speaking from first hand experience if you are a everyday Joe or Jane you get your butt away from the fire. Then you try to make a "what can I do" decision, the answer is.. not a lot. Believe me, it is weeks and even months of questioning yourself. Real life ain´t the movies.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: bmoc, 3/18/2018 11:18:37 AM     (No. 11575603)

I´ve never been a law enforcement officer, but I was a paramedic for twelve years. I was called in under fire many times. I was shot twice, one was a ´flesh wound´ and one saw me in the hospital for three weeks. I saw firemen go into a burning building, an instinct totally foreign to the human brain. A LEO I knew and really admired was shot seven times when he responded to help us out one day.

Some people can and some people can´t. I pass judgment on neither side.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: Jntsrgn, 3/18/2018 11:20:40 AM     (No. 11575606)

We make a real mistake believing that all police or military are well trained and brave. Due to social engineering our police and military have become steady paychecks rather than a call to service.

We should pay police triple what they make now but make it a daunting contest to getvto be one. We would be better served with 1/3 the number of police but have them be honest warriors truly out to protect and serve.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: uno, 3/18/2018 11:26:58 AM     (No. 11575610)

"If you run inside to help, the most likely outcome is that you accomplish nothing."

Not if you are a trained professional like the police are supposed to be! You are there to put a stop to a situation. You do it cautiously, and carefully, but you do it! Maybe you take a shot at him and miss, but I guarantee you´ll get his attention and that may be all it takes to save a life or two or more! If you´re there to wait until the shooter runs out of bullets or kids to shoot, you´re not a Policeman. Yer just a janitor!

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Reply 7 - Posted by: Amereagle-redux, 3/18/2018 11:29:01 AM     (No. 11575613)

Having stood guard in a local school, unarmed, in a gun free state while a mad gunman was loose in the neighborhood a few years ago, seething that the local politicians make it so difficult to carry a sidearm (he had already killed two people at the mall and was on the loose nearby) and wishing I had my rifle, or even a bow and arrow, I am 100% certain I would rush in if kids were being killed.

100% certain.

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R-TA-Wide_2
  


 
Reply 8 - Posted by: Twinkle93, 3/18/2018 11:35:42 AM     (No. 11575618)

How many training exercises did this sherriff´s department conducted for school shootings ( or similar locations) have and how many of the responding officers had participated?

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Reply 9 - Posted by: earlybird, 3/18/2018 11:36:15 AM     (No. 11575619)

The hypothetical in the article doesn’t fit the situation. Beaton writes about an unarmed person. What would they do.

The Broward County sheriffs who stood around outside (including the one who was the designated school security officer) did nothing. It was their JOB to go in.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: Nevadadad46, 3/18/2018 11:51:17 AM     (No. 11575633)

Oh, boy,! Would I have gone in? Without a moment´s hesitation. And, yes! I have been tested on that and with real bullets and lots of them. I have friends (now most of them retired) who were police officers. I know as a natural fact not a one of them would have hesitated to go in. Want to see real police in action? Watch the video of the Dallas police getting shot to death by the Black Lives matter radical murderers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpb-mtjN9q8

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Reply 11 - Posted by: LC Chihuahua, 3/18/2018 12:01:10 PM     (No. 11575642)

Depends on the situation. Also depends if we are talking an individual response versus the response from a trained police department. The police aren´t going to rush in blindly. That is not how they are trained. What happened in Florida will happen again. Doesn´t matter if you ban guns, put an armed guard in every school, arm the teachers, or lockup every individual that displays anti-social behavior.

Most of the talk about new legislation is just that, talk. Much of it is pandering. Very little will change.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: Bazi, 3/18/2018 12:06:47 PM     (No. 11575648)

Couldn´t schools have security cameras at the entry ways and in the hallways that stream live to monitors in the school office and in the local police station?

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.LockDme.


 
Reply 13 - Posted by: Hazymac, 3/18/2018 12:30:43 PM     (No. 11575660)

Yes. Trading my older life for one or more innocent young lives would fine with me. Chances of success, unarmed, would likely be remote if you are the only counterattacker. If a few others can be marshaled to rush the shooter simultaneously, preferably from more than one direction, one or more defenders might die, but the shooter will be overwhelmed by the rest.

There are over 1,700,000 concealed weapon permit holders in Florida. Most of them are well above average in shooting ability, and all have been thoroughly vetted and adjudged to be law abiding and sane; however, unless they are, essentially, police, they can´t have weapons in schools. Permit holding teachers, administrators, janitors, and anyone else whose primary work is on that particular school campus ought to be able to carry a weapon if they want to, and have had sufficient training (which should be paid for in the school budget).

No school anywhere should be a posted "gun free zone"; in fact, schools with no security at all should have something like this posted outside: WARNING: Armed security on premises during school hours.

It´s the same principle as people who post security warnings on their windows or on signs on the lawn, even when they have no security at all. How would a common burglar know that? Maybe a common school shooter would be deterred by a false warning of armed security outside a target school.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: Moonspinner, 3/18/2018 12:33:09 PM     (No. 11575663)

If I was trained, armed and it was my job to protect victims, then yeah I would have gone in. It is the deputies´ job to go in and try to stop the bad guy and save the victims isn´t it? What is the purpose of deputies? Write speeding tickets?

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Reply 15 - Posted by: franq, 3/18/2018 12:47:05 PM     (No. 11575678)

Unarmed? Doubtful. Carrying my Glock .40 with 15 rounds? Probably. I´ve lived my life. Know Jesus. Most of these nut case shooters would crumble under even the smallest pushback, I believe.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: Yorkiemom, 3/18/2018 1:05:41 PM     (No. 11575698)

Good question. What would I do can be asked about A lot of f things s. The answers come easier wwhen hen were Answering from our comfy couc

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Reply 17 - Posted by: dirtyjersey, 3/18/2018 1:28:42 PM     (No. 11575714)

By the theory given - - that you don´t know until it happens - - we should apply the answer to their future pensions.

Remember, modern cops have bulletproof vests, training and weapons. They are not going to simply barge in and confront a shooter.

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.R-LJ.
  


 
Reply 18 - Posted by: Ribicon, 3/18/2018 1:30:44 PM     (No. 11575716)

"When the building´s on fire with children inside, would you go in?" Ask any fireman. The police and the sheriff´s officers, and their leaders, should hang their heads in shame.

A better question: "If you´re already inside and the shooting starts, and you´re carrying, would you defend yourself and others?" Absolutely, because the fight or flight response is engaged. Happens time and again when ordinary citizens defend themselves and others, but the leftist press prefers to reframe the question to imply that armed citizens are ineffective.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: Lte126, 3/18/2018 1:53:23 PM     (No. 11575744)

To a earlier post, as far as FD, you go in BECAUSE there may be someone in there. Even a vagrant in a abandoned building. Even our job is becoming pussified because they don’t want guys going inside abandoned building. They’re afraid someone may get hurt and then they would be criticized.

So yes. You go in. No matter what.

but all the training in the world can’t make a man out of a mouse.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: Maggie2u, 3/18/2018 2:01:47 PM     (No. 11575749)

I ask myself the question. Would I go in? Definitely if one of my grandchildren were in the building. So why not if it´s someone else´s grandchild? Is their life not as important to them as mine is to me? I hope I would have the courage to do it, even if unarmed.
Off topic, but one of the bravest things I have ever seen was during the takeover of the Breslan school in Russia in 2004. When the terrorists started blowing the school up and children were rushing from the building, the terrorists were shooting at them and police officers and soldiers ran out and threw themselves on top of the children to protect them. I have never forgotten that.

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Reply 21 - Posted by: justavoter, 3/18/2018 2:27:16 PM     (No. 11575775)

I have never been put into an "under fire" situation but I believe if I were a police office with the training they receive, I would no doubt go in. I only base that on what I know from the farm. I had a guy that wanted to ride my horse one day and he disregarded my instructions and just let the horse take off. As he came around the barn and have no control of the horse, he was headed toward a bunch of kids and I jumped in front of the horse, got control and stopped him. Someone asked how I had the courage to do that? I don´t know, all I knew was the horse had to be stopped before something really bad happened so I just did what I could.

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Reply 22 - Posted by: dvc, 3/18/2018 2:46:49 PM     (No. 11575793)

Yes. I lost a much beloved relative in overseas firefight a few years ago. I thought about his sacrifice, and I thought how should I honor him?
I carry a gun every day, have competed for over 30 years with a handgun, and have decided that I would make every effort to stop a violent madman from harming helpless people. I have the skills, I am armed and I think I have the will. Won´t be certain unless it happens. Hope to avoid it, but will not stand by or run away like the Broward Cowards.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: IdahoSky, 3/18/2018 2:58:23 PM     (No. 11575798)

No question. Children were dying.
What else could anyone with a shred of decency do?

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Reply 24 - Posted by: Ribald1, 3/18/2018 3:13:10 PM     (No. 11575809)

Is this part of the psychology behind the average liberals desire that people be unarmed? I do realize that only about a third of them want us disarmed in order to be able to rid themselves of us.
When TSHTF do they fear the coward´s thousand deaths if others, armed, take charge and resolve the problem?
Is this an attempt to avoid feeling ineffectual and weak?

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Reply 25 - Posted by: NYbob, 3/18/2018 3:21:58 PM     (No. 11575816)

This is a stupid question. Glenn sets up the extreme argument to excuse cowardly and stupid behavior of Broward county law enforcement. That preening punk sheriff should have spent more time training his officers and planning for emergency situations instead of picking out more stars for his fake military uniform.

What was Patterson doing before the shooting started? Wasn´t he on the lookout for a threat inside and outside the school? Cruz was a surprise to him? What a pathetic ´guard.´ He was armed, he was paid to provide security and be a guard. He didn´t do any part of his job. Pension? He ought to be prosecuted for manslaughter.

Every shooter I know would have gone into the building. Maybe they only fire to distract Cruz, maybe they engage and pick him off, maybe they get shot by Cruz or LEOs when the police finally do their job, but for most the issue would be do they remember to count or are they found with an empty pistol.

Has Glenn Beaton ever owned or carried a firearm? Being prepared to correctly engage a target and to have some kind of control over your actions and reflexes is what motivates shooters I know. They want to be safe and effective with their weapon. Yes, life isn´t a movie, but the mindset of a practiced firearms owner isn´t a discussion over coffee either. Deadly force is a serious responsibility. You either accept that or you should not be anywhere near it. Especially if you are being armed and paid to protect children.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: Bighambone, 3/18/2018 3:44:36 PM     (No. 11575830)

There is a difference between a sworn law enforcement officer and just plain Joe from Kokomo. A sworn law enforcement officer has a “duty” to go in, while just plain Joe does not have that duty.

In that respect the people of Broward County, Florida had the right to expect that all the sworn law enforcement officers in their Sheriff’s Department would do their duty even at the risk of their lives.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: uno, 3/18/2018 5:09:02 PM     (No. 11575884)

And I´ll bet you most plain Joe´s from Kokomo or Idaho would do their utmost to save kids from being slaughtered!

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Reply 28 - Posted by: lakerman1, 3/18/2018 7:28:17 PM     (No. 11575983)

Why was Poltroon Deputy Peterson not inside the school before the shooting started?? Wasn´t that his assignment?

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Reply 29 - Posted by: Sunhan65, 3/19/2018 2:28:04 AM     (No. 11576183)

Most of my long-time favorite L-Dotters have already weighed in (#´s 5, 7, 9, 10, 20, 22 and--of course--13) along with some more recent favorites like #23. I believe all of you.

However, I also understand #´s 1,3, and 4. When I made the decision to arm myself, I took it seriously and trained diligently. After months of practice, I felt competent enough to enter a local competition. During the slow fire exercise, I emptied my pistol in the first 10 seconds and had to stand there like a fool for minutes while the others completed their shots.

I thought I was trained; I thought I was ready. However, the stress of competition was enough to overwhelm all of my practicing. So I honestly don´t know what I would do under actual combat conditions.

I can only hope I would have the courage to kill or die to protect a child.

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Canadian Press, by Colin Perkel    Original Article
Posted By: Tianne- 5/12/2018 5:28:49 AM     Post Reply
Former FBI director James Comey likened U.S. President Donald Trump to a self-serving Mafia boss Thursday during a talk in which he defended the decision to reopen the Hillary Clinton email investigation just days before the 2016 vote. Speaking in Toronto, Comey lamented the current state of American politics, suggesting truth has all but disappeared from public discourse. “Ethical leadership is about having external reference points. Near as I can tell, this president only has one reference point and it is internal,” Comey said during a conversation with bookstore executive Heather Reisman. “That’s very similar to a Cosa

Europe Doesn’t Have to Be Trump’s Doormat
24 replie(s)
New York Times, by Steven Simon and Jonathan Stevenson    Original Article
Posted By: Pluperfect- 5/13/2018 4:54:31 AM     Post Reply
After months of swaggering hesitation, President Trump finally announced the United States’ withdrawal from the nuclear deal with Iran, to which Britain, France, Russia, China, Germany and the European Union are also parties. This action tramples on European leaders, who urged Mr. Trump to exercise restraint in the interest of international security and multilateralism. Federica Mogherini, the European Union’s high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, reacted to Mr. Trump’s announcement with a sharp statement. The European Union and the rest of the international community, she said, would “preserve this nuclear deal.” The question is how. Notwithstanding an abundance of

Joe Biden: the liberal everyman spoiling
for a fight with Trump as 2020 looms

24 replie(s)
Guardian [UK], by David Smith    Original Article
Posted By: NorthernDog- 5/13/2018 10:49:16 AM     Post Reply
Washington - Among recent pilgrims to the Arizona ranch of Senator John McCain was Joe Biden. The Republican, who has an aggressive form of brain cancer, urged the former vice-president to “not walk away” from politics, Biden told the New York Times. It did not take much imagination to see this as a metaphorical shove – into the next race for the White House. Biden has the desire, the pedigree – and the rage. On Friday, incensed by reports that a White House aide had dismissed McCain with the terse comment “he’s dying anyway”, the 75-year-old Democrat let rip, declaring

Trump’s chaotic style is starting to make sense
23 replie(s)
New York Post, by Michael Walsh    Original Article
Posted By: gertrude- 5/12/2018 2:56:36 PM     Post Reply
From its start, the Trump administration has been plagued by charges of “chaos.” From the revolving door of senior staffers — including two secretaries of state, three national security advisers and two chiefs of staff — to the president’s brash and sometimes boorish personal style, to his politically incorrect taunt-tweeting, Donald Trump has refused to conform to his political opponents’ conventional notions of what constitutes an effective White House operation. And yet, the economy is humming, hosts of regulations have been rolled back, the unemployment rate is down, job openings are soaring, taxes have been cut and black

Ret. Admiral Mullen Backs McCain’s
Opposition to Haspel: ‘It Was Torture…
She Should Be Held Responsible’

23 replie(s)
Mediaite, by Aidan McLaughlin    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 5/13/2018 6:49:43 PM     Post Reply
Ret. Admiral Michael Mullen appeared on Fox News Sunday, and was asked by host Chris Wallace whether Gina Haspel‘s involvement in enhanced interrogation disqualifies her from the job of CIA Director. Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 2007 to 2011, told Wallace, “I’ve aligned myself with Senator John McCain for a long time on views of torture and what the standard is.” (Snip) “And I recognize lots of intelligence professionals I’ve talked to think Gina is an extraordinary person with a great background. That said, she has a past and recently while she stated that she was


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