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For all their risks, opioids had no pain-relieving
advantage in a yearlong clinical trial

Los Angeles Times, by Karen Kaplan

Original Article

Posted By:MissMolly, 3/7/2018 5:01:11 AM

For years, doctors turned to opioid painkillers as a first-line treatment for chronic back pain and aches in the joints. Even as the dangers of addiction and overdoses became more clear, the drugs´ pain-relieving benefits were still thought to justify their risks. Now researchers have hard data that challenges this view. In the first randomized clinical trial to make a head-to-head comparison between opioids and other kinds of pain medications, patients who took opioids fared no better over the long term than patients who used safer alternatives. "There was no significant difference in pain-related function between the 2 groups over


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Reply 1 - Posted by: lakerman1, 3/7/2018 5:48:17 AM     (No. 11564497)

The writers chose to collapse two sets of data into one sentence.
First, 115 deaths per day is almost completely
caused by junkies injecting heroin boosted with fentanyl.
Second, we don´t know what a 4 fold increase in hydrocodone means, since the writers cleverly failed to include the numbers.
(If one person died from an rx drug overdose, and next year, 4 people die from ex overdose, that is a fourfold increase.e.
The article is fundamentally dishonest. But, hey! Everyone is writing dishonest articles about opiods.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: gijohn, 3/7/2018 5:57:42 AM     (No. 11564500)

I didn´t see what the trial was using as opioid med. Kind of dishonest if they were prescribing hydrocodone with acetaminophen. I was given acetaminophen after bypass surgery one time and it worked well. I think it was when they were still getting my BP under control. The trouble with those meds is of course the effect on the liver.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: paperpuncher, 3/7/2018 6:49:48 AM     (No. 11564530)

I´m sorry but, there is a significant difference between surgical pain and "back and joint pain". After major back surgery it is not jut take two Tylenol and call me in the morning.

I certainly can´t see a medic giving Tylenol rather than morphine to a wounded soldier in the field.

The problem with the addictions is the meds are used too often and prescribed to too long a period of time for relatively minor pain.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: Udanja99, 3/7/2018 6:55:49 AM     (No. 11564533)

Acetaminophen is just Tylenol. Hydorcodone is the opioid and, according to my orthopedic surgeon, contains synthetic codein.

I beg to differ on the advantages. If you’ve ever had bone surgery or an abcessed tooth in need of a root canal, you know that opioids are the only thing that really stops the pain. I have had numerous surgeries and there have been moments when I thanked God for oxycodone.

The key is to use them as prescribed and to stop using them as soon as possible. I do find that doctors tend to prescribe more pills than you need. I was once given 30 oxycodone for an abcessed tooth when I had a root canal scheduled 2 days later. Eight pills would have been enough.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: Truthfetish, 3/7/2018 6:57:30 AM     (No. 11564535)

#1, half those junkies got on heroin because they can´t get oxy scripts renewed by that doctor who prescribed them to keep his own NPS numbers high enuf for Obamacare beancounters.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: earlybird, 3/7/2018 6:59:49 AM     (No. 11564537)

I am among those who cannot take opioids because of their side effects. Faced with a fractured pelvis a few years ago, I tried my regular Aleve and it dealt with the pain very successfully. The doctor gave me the option of taking it a little more often than the usual 12 hour intervals specified on the label. As needed. As soon as I didn’t need so much, I tapered it off.

Pain and painkilling are very individual matters, IMO. I can’t see how one opinion on can fit all.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: GO3, 3/7/2018 7:05:36 AM     (No. 11564542)

I too needed something stronger than tylenol after major surgery. However, I think there is a difference between pain relieving and a drug which makes you not care about the pain. Maybe that´s what they are talking about.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: crunchycon, 3/7/2018 7:07:32 AM     (No. 11564544)

Came here to agree with #4. Like others here I have had surgery. I took my pain meds exactly as prescribed and transitioned off at the end of my prescription. I did, of course, experience some pain, particularly during the last hour before the next dose, but II managed it like a tough gal.. Everyone’s story is difficult fly, but my method kept me outof trouble and may work for otherwise.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: citizen, 3/7/2018 7:41:08 AM     (No. 11564581)

Doctors aren´t John Kerry and cannot feel your pain..the pain scale of 1-10 is a useless way to determine an individual´s pain Also this study was done by the VA? Yikes.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: ladydawgfan, 3/7/2018 7:53:10 AM     (No. 11564601)

I am not supposed to take narcotics due to side effects and the fact that they cause my migraines to go out of control. However, I also have a knee that is severely damaged from a fall and because I am a fluffy woman, I cannot find an orthopedist to correct it surgically. Instead, they keep hitting it with cortisone shots and the latest which was Supartz, none of which did any good (although the Supartz did give me some LOVELY migraines!).

The prescription that I am on for pain is a mild narcotic called transfer, which has been in the news lately for other things as well. It controls the pain in my knee and allows me to function. However, it also aggravates my migraines, makes me tired and occasionally gives me double vision. The sooner I am rid of it, the better.

Now if I could just find someone to really listen to me about my knee....

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Reply 11 - Posted by: ladydawgfan, 3/7/2018 7:54:55 AM     (No. 11564604)


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Reply 12 - Posted by: Rather Read, 3/7/2018 7:59:31 AM     (No. 11564615)

I´ve been given opioids after two operations and a wisdom tooth extraction. They never really relieved pain, but I didn´t care that I hurt. I ditched them after two days and went on ibuprophen and that actually relieved the pain.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: greggojo, 3/7/2018 8:11:31 AM     (No. 11564636)

For those concerned about the LATimes cookies:


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Reply 14 - Posted by: Nevadadad46, 3/7/2018 8:30:24 AM     (No. 11564668)

My surgery and pain meds experience proves there can be no substitute for the proper (I said Proper!) dosage of opioids. Wow! You can go from absolute agony to instant nirvana with the right dosage. But, an emergency operation is over in hours, a few days of pain relief and you are on your way home with a hand full of pills to get you through. Then stop it. That process is a "Repeat as often as needed". But, then long term use on a maintenance prescription of opioids (Oxy and hydro)for control of background pain is off the charts insane. If your pain is that bad, you needs much more than the max legal dose (usually 20 mg) of that stuff. Because in almost no time, a month or two, the "maintenance" dose is useless, and your pain is back but you take the damn pills because now stopping them is not an option! And the bad part is, ask for help getting off them from your insurance and they will tell you real quick- "Not part of the plan, baby!" I had to go cold turkey- What a nightmare! Later Wife did, too. And she had a much rougher time of it. No help, but lots of interference and threats from the Dr. over them- Yes. Threats! (nuther story)

Opioids? No thanks. I now know how to use them. But, had to learn the hard way.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: joew9, 3/7/2018 8:58:24 AM     (No. 11564700)

For me, after surgery and another time during an abscessed tooth I got no pain relief from the prescribed opioids. My family got some relief in that I was too drugged up to complain and moan. So from their perception they believed I got relief.
The side effects were so bad that after two days I quit. It took longer to recover from the opioid side effect than from the surgery. And the abscessed tooth had no pain the very instant they drilled into it and relieved the pressure.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: Jethro bo, 3/7/2018 9:02:20 AM     (No. 11564706)

Well, gee weez, another lie from the fake news. The study was specific and it included hip and knee pain from osteoarthritis, not as, this liar ´journalist´ states in the first sentence (designed to mislead from the start0, ´aches in the joints´. Oseteoarthritis is very differnt from aches i the joints. Why is this misleading? Because osteoarthritis is commonly treated (first line therapy) with non opoid drugs. So there is a selection bias in the design of the study that favors non opioid drugs. The other major red flag is this was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, a well known liberal poltical advocacy group. It publishes significant political studies disguised as ´science´. Back pain is a hard problem to treat and there is little that has ever been shown consistantly effective so this isn´t a valueless study. But the conclusons are skewed and further stuies are needed.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: Madinmaryland, 3/7/2018 9:05:44 AM     (No. 11564711)

I too had a similar response to opioids. Still had pain, but didn´t care. Give me 800mgm ibuprofen any day for pain relief

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Reply 18 - Posted by: TexaTucky, 3/7/2018 9:56:06 AM     (No. 11564763)

God blessed me with getting really itchy if I take hydrocodone, so I hope I never have any severe pain that can´t be handled by other means.

Since both parents died of overmedication (one accidentally at home, the other negligently by hospital employee), I shun medications anyway, but I believe in the power of appropriately prescribed ones.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: Ribald1, 3/7/2018 10:31:26 AM     (No. 11564814)

A big part of the problem is that people take no personal initiative in learning how to deal with pain anymore.
Pain, emotional and physical, is part and parcel to human life and experience.
There is no need to concern oneself, though as there will come a day when you will feel no more pain. I do not long for that day.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: mildred, 3/7/2018 10:34:50 AM     (No. 11564818)

Why would a doctor prescribe an opioid for a pain level of 3.5-4? At that level the pain is the same as stubbing your toe while wearing heavy boots. When my pain reached about 20 on that scale, I needed everything they had in their power to give relief. Live with stage 4 cancer and then do a study. Tylenol alone does not give any relief to those of us who are really suffering. Doctors also prescribe the opioids because it´s easier for faster results. Then the biggest problem is dealing with the side effects. It´s time that the medical field try alternative pain treatments. Big pharma needs to sell drugs to survive so the patients have to suffer.

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Reply 21 - Posted by: kono, 3/7/2018 10:36:58 AM     (No. 11564820)

The bias is obvious early in the piece, when the words "hard data" are underlined in a tabloid-esque manner not consistent with erudite, professional reporting. Note how many times numbers are included when they support the anti-opioid position, but generalized hand-waving verbiage is employed to tiptoe around contradictory elements.

In addition to the doozie pointed out by #1, it includes qualifiers out the wazoo - "over the long term" being a handy way to dismiss what could be significant short-term differences.

It admits that anxiety was improved more for study participants taking the opioids; but seems uninterested in following that point up.

I´d file this under "The Anatomy of a Hit Piece"...

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Reply 22 - Posted by: earlybird, 3/7/2018 11:12:05 AM     (No. 11564847)

Re #21, that underlined bit is a link to this - not emphasis:

March 6, 2018

Effect of Opioid vs Nonopioid Medications on Pain-Related Function in Patients With Chronic Back Pain or Hip or Knee Osteoarthritis Pain
The SPACE Randomized Clinical Trial

Erin E. Krebs, MD, MPH1,2; Amy Gravely, MA1; Sean Nugent, BA1; et al Agnes C. Jensen, MPH1; Beth DeRonne, PharmD1; Elizabeth S. Goldsmith, MD, MS1,3; Kurt Kroenke, MD4,5,6; Matthew J. Bair4,5,6; Siamak Noorbaloochi, PhD1,2
Author Affiliations
JAMA. 2018;319(9):872-882. doi:10.1001/jama.2018.0899


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Reply 23 - Posted by: agrunt, 3/7/2018 12:45:41 PM     (No. 11564918)

Why would a doctor prescribe an opioid for a pain level of 3.5-4?
I have long term pain. I use pain meds to get down to the 4 level. Further all of this numeric level of pain stuff is subjective, My feeling of a level 4 may be the next guy´s 5. No dishonesty here just how you measure the subjective level of pain in your body. I just do not understand how they an use this "number system" to go between differing folks.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: Chuzzles, 3/7/2018 2:29:28 PM     (No. 11565013)

I have been reading Lucianne´s site since the early days of the Clinton presidency and the blue dress. I know how many very intelligent and diverse people comment here from all professions and walks of life.

I have long considered the commenters on this site to be much more informed about any subject than any media writer out there.

I suspect this article is meant to play into the hands of the Feds and their war on opioids. They just cannot leave Doctors alone. Lawyers should get their own medical licenses and stay out of the medical profession. They have no idea how much harm they are doing to law abiding citizens.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: Rumblehog, 3/7/2018 3:10:47 PM     (No. 11565026)

I suspect very much as #24 states.

I´ve had more than 6 back surgeries, and even had an electronic stimulator implanted into my spine to offset nerve damage pain to no avail. The only thing that helps me deal with chronic pain are two VERY expensive medications, one of which is categorized as "opioid-like." Most of my surgeries were straightforward and I never even took the post-surgery pain meds. One major back surgery however, was extremely debilitating and the only way to make it through the recovery period (3 months) was with moderate levels of Hydrocodone. Trust me, this article is B.S.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: toodles3956, 3/7/2018 3:21:28 PM     (No. 11565035)

Lets give the author of this piece a double knee replacement, then ask her if Tylenol works for her.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: GardenGal, 3/7/2018 3:29:32 PM     (No. 11565041)

I live with pain every day of my life. I, along with everyone else on coumadin, cannot take NSAIDS (aspirin, ibuprofen, etc). Tylenol is useless as a pain reliever for me since it never helped at all with any sort of pain. So I use Voltaren ointment (on some joints I am able to), lidocaine cream, and Norco 5/325 or even 2.5/175 often. I am not the problem Opiod user and these studies are idiotic. I have RA, not OA, and many other problems that are painful. I do not medicate for 3 or 4. That is my every day normal and what I try to aim for if my pain gets worse. But when I broke a rib, the only thing that helped was the Norco.

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Reply 28 - Posted by: Doctorfixit, 3/7/2018 4:53:29 PM     (No. 11565104)

One of the more dishonest pieces of propaganda I´ve seen lately. Why is the corporate propaganda machine pushing this hysteria so hard?

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Reply 29 - Posted by: msjena, 3/7/2018 6:05:59 PM     (No. 11565137)

Hydrocodone(Vicodin,etc.) has the advantage of causing drowsiness, which helps the patient tolerate pain after surgery (by falling asleep). Some surgery causes little pain and some a lot. It all depends. I certainly don´t think opiods are necessary for everyday pain, like headaches. But I remember when I had a shoulder injury, the pain was so great that Vicodin didn´t work. The doctor gave me Tramadol,a different narcotic, which helped. People shouldn´t have to suffer if pain relief is available.

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Reply 30 - Posted by: skedaddle, 3/7/2018 6:41:52 PM     (No. 11565162)

Dear Lord, this war on opiates (war on American public suffering pain) is really making me mad and scared.

I was just diagnosed with a Stage 4 cancer. Will I be left to writhe in pain if treatment fails? It seems like the "doctors" who did this study and most of our elected officials would be just fine with me suffering any level of pain when perfectly good medicines exist to relieve suffering.

I´ve recently been given fentanyl three times for quick pain relief during surgical procedures that didn´t require full anesthesia. It worked and I came out of it quickly - the nurses said that´s why they like to use it. I´ve also had Tylenol with codeine for torn ligaments, a broken bone and root canal in the past.

After all that, I´ve never once been tempted to drive down to the bad part of town to buy heroin. That´s because I´m not a drug addict and my doctors were careful with their instructions and quantity prescribed. Opioids works for me. They made my dad see spiders on the walls and you wouldn´t believe how hard it was to get doctors to give alternate pain meds during recovery from joint replacement surgeries.

There´s a lot of blame to go around for people dying from opiates but our government is punishing the innocent and leaving the guilty to go about their business as usual.

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Reply 31 - Posted by: kono, 3/7/2018 7:06:01 PM     (No. 11565178)

I´m grateful for #22´s info. I was not inclined to click, since the underlined text was not colored like a link on the page I read.

That it wasn´t the only element of apparent bias in the article inclines me to stand by the ´hit piece´ characterization, though.

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Reply 32 - Posted by: peeps, 3/7/2018 8:22:42 PM     (No. 11565217)

Agree with #30. After cancer meds, radiation, and surgery, in my case the Hydrocodone helped me relax and heal better without pain. A body without pain and stress is a body that can focus on healing. This may not work in everyone´s case, but I bless the manufacturers of this drug that helped me heal. Not a drug addict.

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Daily Mail (UK), by Chris Spargo    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 3/16/2018 6:00:25 PM     Post Reply
Sheet happens. Two days after a nasty fall in a hotel bathtub left Hillary Clinton with a broken wrist, the former Secretary of State was spotted making the best of a bad situation while continuing her tour of India. Hillary was seen in Jaipur on Thursday where she appeared to be adopting an out-of-sight and out-of-mind approach to her recent injury by wearing a kurta that had been customized to make one sleeve longer than other. To achieve this, the loose and flowing top was wrapped tightly around Hillary´s torso, transforming the once comfortable piece into a more constricting look complete

Matt Damon Delivers: Moving Family
To Australia Because Trump

42 replie(s)
Daily Wire, by Paul Bois    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 3/15/2018 4:49:15 PM     Post Reply
With the rise of President Trump, many celebrities from Barbara Streisand to Cher have vowed to migrate north to Canada or down under to Australia. None of them delivered ... until now. Ladies and gentlemen, according to Page Six, actor Matt Damon plans to move his family over to Australia to protest President Trump. "Damon, 47, reportedly has purchased a property in Byron Bay, New South Wales," reports Page Six. "The home’s next door to a place owned by Chris Hemsworth — with whom Damon recently appeared in ´Thor: Ragnarok.´" A source told the outlet: “Matt’s telling friends and colleagues

FBI official Andrew McCabe, hoping
to retire, asks Justice Department
not to fire him

38 replie(s)
Washington Post, by Matt Zapotosky    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 3/15/2018 9:39:03 PM     Post Reply
Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe on Thursday made a final pitch to the Justice Department about why he should not be fired just 72 hours before his retirement, leaving Attorney General Jeff Sessions to decide the matter with a deadline rapidly approaching. McCabe did not meet with Sessions, who was traveling Thursday, but with other senior officials, including Scott Schools, the most senior career attorney in the department. He arrived around 1 p.m. and departed four hours later. The decision could be consequential for McCabe´s financial future, as if he is fired, he could lose significant retirement benefits. The

Collapsed FIU Bridge Was Funded by
Federal Grant Program Criticized for
Shoddy, Politicized Review Process

34 replie(s)
Reason Magazine, by Christian Britschgi    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 3/15/2018 9:54:12 PM     Post Reply
The pedestrian bridge that collapsed at Florida International University´s Miami-Dade campus today, killing several people, was funded with $11.4 million from the U.S. Department of Transportation´s Transportation Investments Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) program. The TIGER program has come under repeated fire for awarding money based on politics rather than merit. (Snip) In 2014, the GAO released a report that was highly critical of how DOT handled the TIGER V grants, which included money for the FIU pedestrian bridge project. The report said DOT advanced projects with lower technical ratings in lieu of those with higher technical ratings and upgraded the

Stephen Hawking Wrote a Popular Book
About Physics and Spent the Rest of His
Life Crusading for Awful Causes

34 replie(s)
Washington Free Beacon, by Noah Pollak    Original Article
Posted By: MissMolly- 3/16/2018 5:04:58 AM     Post Reply
"I have received a number of letters from Palestinian academics," Stephen Hawking said in his declaration of support for the BDS movement. "They are unanimous that I should respect the boycott. In view of this, I must withdraw from the conference." The conference was in 2013, in Jerusalem, and hosted by Shimon Peres, an Israeli leader who spent his career as an indefatigable advocate of peace. It didn´t matter. Hawking joined the BDS movement because he never met a fashionable far-left cause he didn´t like, and Israel-bashing was one of his favorites. In 2009, when Israel counterattacked after four years of Hamas

Jeff Flake: “Republicans Need
to Be More Accepting of Reality,
Climate Change Is Real” (Video)

33 replie(s)
Gateway Pundit, by Jim Hoft    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 3/16/2018 11:10:56 AM     Post Reply
Senator Jeff Flake loves to lecture. Jeff Flake especially loves to lecture Republicans. The good news is he will no longer be a senator next year. The bad news is this d**che will either be a regular on CNN or MSNBC. Flake spoke at St. Anselm college this week. He lectured Republicans on global warming junk science. "“Republicans as a party need to be more accepting of reality. Climate change is real, and it is happening.”

Eric Holder to GOP: ‘You want to have
a knife fight, we’re gonna do it’

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Gateway Pundit, by Kristinn Taylor    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 3/16/2018 4:20:35 PM     Post Reply
Former Obama Attorney General Eric Holder used violent anti-GOP rhetoric in a campaign stop in Wisconsin Thursday, challenging Republicans to a knife fight. Holder couched his violence in passive-aggressive legalese, saying, “We have to be ready to, you know, not do anything inappropriate, not do anything improper, certainly not do anything unlawful. But to the extent that they want to have a fight, let’s do it. You want to rumble, let’s rumble. You want to have a knife fight, we’re gonna do it.” Holder’s statement was reported by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Heading to the fall elections, Holder said Democrats need

Academics reeling as market discipline
comes to the University of Wisconsin

30 replie(s)
American Thinker, by Thomas Lifson    Original Article
Posted By: magnante- 3/16/2018 8:27:42 AM     Post Reply
If you are sick and tired of professors indoctrinating students in politicized classes that teach nothing of any use in real life, and hate the idea that tenure immunizes them from accountability, the next decade or so is going to provide some relief. The reckoning is coming, as shocked professors at a University of Wisconsin campus just discovered. The higher education bubble that Professor Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit has forecast to burst has just popped in Stevens Point, Wisconsin. It turns out that you can’t earn a living teaching subjects that students aren’t that interested in. Even if you have

Report: Failed AG Sessions
Will Not Fire Andrew McCabe

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Gateway Pundit, by Cristina Laila    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 3/16/2018 8:27:04 PM     Post Reply
According to independent journalist Mike Cernovich, McCabe is safe. AG Sessions will not fire the FBI Deputy Director despite clear misconduct. McCabe is set to receive a hefty pension. Cernovich’s sources are telling him Sessions will not drop the hammer on McCabe. Cernovich tweeted: Jeff Session said he won’t fire McCabe, two sources familiar with his decisionmaking told me, thus sending a message to @realDonaldTrump that those who lie to the FBI in an effort to help Hillary are safe. (Snip) Cernovich then tweeted: McCabe is safe, Sessions isn’t going to fire him despite clear misconduct.

REVEALED: Peter Strzok Had
Personal Relationship With Recused Judge
In Michael Flynn Case

26 replie(s)
The Federalist, by Mollie Hemingway    Original Article
Posted By: Whamdbambam- 3/16/2018 12:45:02 PM     Post Reply
Newly discovered text messages obtained by The Federalist reveal two key federal law enforcement officials conspired to meet with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) judge who presided over the federal case against Michael Flynn. The judge, Rudolph Contreras, was recused from handling the case just days after accepting the guilty plea of President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser who was charged with making false statements to federal investigators. The text messages about Contreras between controversial Department of Justice lawyer Lisa Page and Peter Strzok, the top Federal

FBI’s Andrew McCabe is fired a little
more than 24 hours before he could retire

26 replie(s)
Washington Post, by Matt Zapotosky    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 3/16/2018 10:02:43 PM     Post Reply
Attorney General Jeff Sessions late Friday night fired former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, a little more than 24 hours before McCabe was set to retire. Sessions announced the decision in a statement just before 10 p.m., noting that both the Justice Department Inspector General and the FBI office that handles discipline had found “that Mr. McCabe had made an unauthorized disclosure to the news media and lacked candor — including under oath — on multiple occasions.” He said based on those findings and the recommendation of the department’s senior career official, “I have terminated the employment of Andrew McCabe

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