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For all their risks, opioids had no pain-relieving
advantage in a yearlong clinical trial

Los Angeles Times, by Karen Kaplan

Original Article

Posted By:MissMolly, 3/7/2018 5:01:11 AM

For years, doctors turned to opioid painkillers as a first-line treatment for chronic back pain and aches in the joints. Even as the dangers of addiction and overdoses became more clear, the drugs´ pain-relieving benefits were still thought to justify their risks. Now researchers have hard data that challenges this view. In the first randomized clinical trial to make a head-to-head comparison between opioids and other kinds of pain medications, patients who took opioids fared no better over the long term than patients who used safer alternatives. "There was no significant difference in pain-related function between the 2 groups over


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Reply 1 - Posted by: lakerman1, 3/7/2018 5:48:17 AM     (No. 11564497)

The writers chose to collapse two sets of data into one sentence.
First, 115 deaths per day is almost completely
caused by junkies injecting heroin boosted with fentanyl.
Second, we don´t know what a 4 fold increase in hydrocodone means, since the writers cleverly failed to include the numbers.
(If one person died from an rx drug overdose, and next year, 4 people die from ex overdose, that is a fourfold increase.e.
The article is fundamentally dishonest. But, hey! Everyone is writing dishonest articles about opiods.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: gijohn, 3/7/2018 5:57:42 AM     (No. 11564500)

I didn´t see what the trial was using as opioid med. Kind of dishonest if they were prescribing hydrocodone with acetaminophen. I was given acetaminophen after bypass surgery one time and it worked well. I think it was when they were still getting my BP under control. The trouble with those meds is of course the effect on the liver.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: paperpuncher, 3/7/2018 6:49:48 AM     (No. 11564530)

I´m sorry but, there is a significant difference between surgical pain and "back and joint pain". After major back surgery it is not jut take two Tylenol and call me in the morning.

I certainly can´t see a medic giving Tylenol rather than morphine to a wounded soldier in the field.

The problem with the addictions is the meds are used too often and prescribed to too long a period of time for relatively minor pain.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: Udanja99, 3/7/2018 6:55:49 AM     (No. 11564533)

Acetaminophen is just Tylenol. Hydorcodone is the opioid and, according to my orthopedic surgeon, contains synthetic codein.

I beg to differ on the advantages. If you’ve ever had bone surgery or an abcessed tooth in need of a root canal, you know that opioids are the only thing that really stops the pain. I have had numerous surgeries and there have been moments when I thanked God for oxycodone.

The key is to use them as prescribed and to stop using them as soon as possible. I do find that doctors tend to prescribe more pills than you need. I was once given 30 oxycodone for an abcessed tooth when I had a root canal scheduled 2 days later. Eight pills would have been enough.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: Truthfetish, 3/7/2018 6:57:30 AM     (No. 11564535)

#1, half those junkies got on heroin because they can´t get oxy scripts renewed by that doctor who prescribed them to keep his own NPS numbers high enuf for Obamacare beancounters.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: earlybird, 3/7/2018 6:59:49 AM     (No. 11564537)

I am among those who cannot take opioids because of their side effects. Faced with a fractured pelvis a few years ago, I tried my regular Aleve and it dealt with the pain very successfully. The doctor gave me the option of taking it a little more often than the usual 12 hour intervals specified on the label. As needed. As soon as I didn’t need so much, I tapered it off.

Pain and painkilling are very individual matters, IMO. I can’t see how one opinion on can fit all.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: GO3, 3/7/2018 7:05:36 AM     (No. 11564542)

I too needed something stronger than tylenol after major surgery. However, I think there is a difference between pain relieving and a drug which makes you not care about the pain. Maybe that´s what they are talking about.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: crunchycon, 3/7/2018 7:07:32 AM     (No. 11564544)

Came here to agree with #4. Like others here I have had surgery. I took my pain meds exactly as prescribed and transitioned off at the end of my prescription. I did, of course, experience some pain, particularly during the last hour before the next dose, but II managed it like a tough gal.. Everyone’s story is difficult fly, but my method kept me outof trouble and may work for otherwise.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: citizen, 3/7/2018 7:41:08 AM     (No. 11564581)

Doctors aren´t John Kerry and cannot feel your pain..the pain scale of 1-10 is a useless way to determine an individual´s pain Also this study was done by the VA? Yikes.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: ladydawgfan, 3/7/2018 7:53:10 AM     (No. 11564601)

I am not supposed to take narcotics due to side effects and the fact that they cause my migraines to go out of control. However, I also have a knee that is severely damaged from a fall and because I am a fluffy woman, I cannot find an orthopedist to correct it surgically. Instead, they keep hitting it with cortisone shots and the latest which was Supartz, none of which did any good (although the Supartz did give me some LOVELY migraines!).

The prescription that I am on for pain is a mild narcotic called transfer, which has been in the news lately for other things as well. It controls the pain in my knee and allows me to function. However, it also aggravates my migraines, makes me tired and occasionally gives me double vision. The sooner I am rid of it, the better.

Now if I could just find someone to really listen to me about my knee....

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Reply 11 - Posted by: ladydawgfan, 3/7/2018 7:54:55 AM     (No. 11564604)


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Reply 12 - Posted by: Rather Read, 3/7/2018 7:59:31 AM     (No. 11564615)

I´ve been given opioids after two operations and a wisdom tooth extraction. They never really relieved pain, but I didn´t care that I hurt. I ditched them after two days and went on ibuprophen and that actually relieved the pain.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: greggojo, 3/7/2018 8:11:31 AM     (No. 11564636)

For those concerned about the LATimes cookies:


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Reply 14 - Posted by: Nevadadad46, 3/7/2018 8:30:24 AM     (No. 11564668)

My surgery and pain meds experience proves there can be no substitute for the proper (I said Proper!) dosage of opioids. Wow! You can go from absolute agony to instant nirvana with the right dosage. But, an emergency operation is over in hours, a few days of pain relief and you are on your way home with a hand full of pills to get you through. Then stop it. That process is a "Repeat as often as needed". But, then long term use on a maintenance prescription of opioids (Oxy and hydro)for control of background pain is off the charts insane. If your pain is that bad, you needs much more than the max legal dose (usually 20 mg) of that stuff. Because in almost no time, a month or two, the "maintenance" dose is useless, and your pain is back but you take the damn pills because now stopping them is not an option! And the bad part is, ask for help getting off them from your insurance and they will tell you real quick- "Not part of the plan, baby!" I had to go cold turkey- What a nightmare! Later Wife did, too. And she had a much rougher time of it. No help, but lots of interference and threats from the Dr. over them- Yes. Threats! (nuther story)

Opioids? No thanks. I now know how to use them. But, had to learn the hard way.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: joew9, 3/7/2018 8:58:24 AM     (No. 11564700)

For me, after surgery and another time during an abscessed tooth I got no pain relief from the prescribed opioids. My family got some relief in that I was too drugged up to complain and moan. So from their perception they believed I got relief.
The side effects were so bad that after two days I quit. It took longer to recover from the opioid side effect than from the surgery. And the abscessed tooth had no pain the very instant they drilled into it and relieved the pressure.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: Jethro bo, 3/7/2018 9:02:20 AM     (No. 11564706)

Well, gee weez, another lie from the fake news. The study was specific and it included hip and knee pain from osteoarthritis, not as, this liar ´journalist´ states in the first sentence (designed to mislead from the start0, ´aches in the joints´. Oseteoarthritis is very differnt from aches i the joints. Why is this misleading? Because osteoarthritis is commonly treated (first line therapy) with non opoid drugs. So there is a selection bias in the design of the study that favors non opioid drugs. The other major red flag is this was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, a well known liberal poltical advocacy group. It publishes significant political studies disguised as ´science´. Back pain is a hard problem to treat and there is little that has ever been shown consistantly effective so this isn´t a valueless study. But the conclusons are skewed and further stuies are needed.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: Madinmaryland, 3/7/2018 9:05:44 AM     (No. 11564711)

I too had a similar response to opioids. Still had pain, but didn´t care. Give me 800mgm ibuprofen any day for pain relief

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Reply 18 - Posted by: TexaTucky, 3/7/2018 9:56:06 AM     (No. 11564763)

God blessed me with getting really itchy if I take hydrocodone, so I hope I never have any severe pain that can´t be handled by other means.

Since both parents died of overmedication (one accidentally at home, the other negligently by hospital employee), I shun medications anyway, but I believe in the power of appropriately prescribed ones.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: Ribald1, 3/7/2018 10:31:26 AM     (No. 11564814)

A big part of the problem is that people take no personal initiative in learning how to deal with pain anymore.
Pain, emotional and physical, is part and parcel to human life and experience.
There is no need to concern oneself, though as there will come a day when you will feel no more pain. I do not long for that day.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: mildred, 3/7/2018 10:34:50 AM     (No. 11564818)

Why would a doctor prescribe an opioid for a pain level of 3.5-4? At that level the pain is the same as stubbing your toe while wearing heavy boots. When my pain reached about 20 on that scale, I needed everything they had in their power to give relief. Live with stage 4 cancer and then do a study. Tylenol alone does not give any relief to those of us who are really suffering. Doctors also prescribe the opioids because it´s easier for faster results. Then the biggest problem is dealing with the side effects. It´s time that the medical field try alternative pain treatments. Big pharma needs to sell drugs to survive so the patients have to suffer.

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Reply 21 - Posted by: kono, 3/7/2018 10:36:58 AM     (No. 11564820)

The bias is obvious early in the piece, when the words "hard data" are underlined in a tabloid-esque manner not consistent with erudite, professional reporting. Note how many times numbers are included when they support the anti-opioid position, but generalized hand-waving verbiage is employed to tiptoe around contradictory elements.

In addition to the doozie pointed out by #1, it includes qualifiers out the wazoo - "over the long term" being a handy way to dismiss what could be significant short-term differences.

It admits that anxiety was improved more for study participants taking the opioids; but seems uninterested in following that point up.

I´d file this under "The Anatomy of a Hit Piece"...

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Reply 22 - Posted by: earlybird, 3/7/2018 11:12:05 AM     (No. 11564847)

Re #21, that underlined bit is a link to this - not emphasis:

March 6, 2018

Effect of Opioid vs Nonopioid Medications on Pain-Related Function in Patients With Chronic Back Pain or Hip or Knee Osteoarthritis Pain
The SPACE Randomized Clinical Trial

Erin E. Krebs, MD, MPH1,2; Amy Gravely, MA1; Sean Nugent, BA1; et al Agnes C. Jensen, MPH1; Beth DeRonne, PharmD1; Elizabeth S. Goldsmith, MD, MS1,3; Kurt Kroenke, MD4,5,6; Matthew J. Bair4,5,6; Siamak Noorbaloochi, PhD1,2
Author Affiliations
JAMA. 2018;319(9):872-882. doi:10.1001/jama.2018.0899


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Reply 23 - Posted by: agrunt, 3/7/2018 12:45:41 PM     (No. 11564918)

Why would a doctor prescribe an opioid for a pain level of 3.5-4?
I have long term pain. I use pain meds to get down to the 4 level. Further all of this numeric level of pain stuff is subjective, My feeling of a level 4 may be the next guy´s 5. No dishonesty here just how you measure the subjective level of pain in your body. I just do not understand how they an use this "number system" to go between differing folks.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: Chuzzles, 3/7/2018 2:29:28 PM     (No. 11565013)

I have been reading Lucianne´s site since the early days of the Clinton presidency and the blue dress. I know how many very intelligent and diverse people comment here from all professions and walks of life.

I have long considered the commenters on this site to be much more informed about any subject than any media writer out there.

I suspect this article is meant to play into the hands of the Feds and their war on opioids. They just cannot leave Doctors alone. Lawyers should get their own medical licenses and stay out of the medical profession. They have no idea how much harm they are doing to law abiding citizens.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: Rumblehog, 3/7/2018 3:10:47 PM     (No. 11565026)

I suspect very much as #24 states.

I´ve had more than 6 back surgeries, and even had an electronic stimulator implanted into my spine to offset nerve damage pain to no avail. The only thing that helps me deal with chronic pain are two VERY expensive medications, one of which is categorized as "opioid-like." Most of my surgeries were straightforward and I never even took the post-surgery pain meds. One major back surgery however, was extremely debilitating and the only way to make it through the recovery period (3 months) was with moderate levels of Hydrocodone. Trust me, this article is B.S.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: toodles3956, 3/7/2018 3:21:28 PM     (No. 11565035)

Lets give the author of this piece a double knee replacement, then ask her if Tylenol works for her.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: GardenGal, 3/7/2018 3:29:32 PM     (No. 11565041)

I live with pain every day of my life. I, along with everyone else on coumadin, cannot take NSAIDS (aspirin, ibuprofen, etc). Tylenol is useless as a pain reliever for me since it never helped at all with any sort of pain. So I use Voltaren ointment (on some joints I am able to), lidocaine cream, and Norco 5/325 or even 2.5/175 often. I am not the problem Opiod user and these studies are idiotic. I have RA, not OA, and many other problems that are painful. I do not medicate for 3 or 4. That is my every day normal and what I try to aim for if my pain gets worse. But when I broke a rib, the only thing that helped was the Norco.

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Reply 28 - Posted by: Doctorfixit, 3/7/2018 4:53:29 PM     (No. 11565104)

One of the more dishonest pieces of propaganda I´ve seen lately. Why is the corporate propaganda machine pushing this hysteria so hard?

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Reply 29 - Posted by: msjena, 3/7/2018 6:05:59 PM     (No. 11565137)

Hydrocodone(Vicodin,etc.) has the advantage of causing drowsiness, which helps the patient tolerate pain after surgery (by falling asleep). Some surgery causes little pain and some a lot. It all depends. I certainly don´t think opiods are necessary for everyday pain, like headaches. But I remember when I had a shoulder injury, the pain was so great that Vicodin didn´t work. The doctor gave me Tramadol,a different narcotic, which helped. People shouldn´t have to suffer if pain relief is available.

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Reply 30 - Posted by: skedaddle, 3/7/2018 6:41:52 PM     (No. 11565162)

Dear Lord, this war on opiates (war on American public suffering pain) is really making me mad and scared.

I was just diagnosed with a Stage 4 cancer. Will I be left to writhe in pain if treatment fails? It seems like the "doctors" who did this study and most of our elected officials would be just fine with me suffering any level of pain when perfectly good medicines exist to relieve suffering.

I´ve recently been given fentanyl three times for quick pain relief during surgical procedures that didn´t require full anesthesia. It worked and I came out of it quickly - the nurses said that´s why they like to use it. I´ve also had Tylenol with codeine for torn ligaments, a broken bone and root canal in the past.

After all that, I´ve never once been tempted to drive down to the bad part of town to buy heroin. That´s because I´m not a drug addict and my doctors were careful with their instructions and quantity prescribed. Opioids works for me. They made my dad see spiders on the walls and you wouldn´t believe how hard it was to get doctors to give alternate pain meds during recovery from joint replacement surgeries.

There´s a lot of blame to go around for people dying from opiates but our government is punishing the innocent and leaving the guilty to go about their business as usual.

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Reply 31 - Posted by: kono, 3/7/2018 7:06:01 PM     (No. 11565178)

I´m grateful for #22´s info. I was not inclined to click, since the underlined text was not colored like a link on the page I read.

That it wasn´t the only element of apparent bias in the article inclines me to stand by the ´hit piece´ characterization, though.

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Reply 32 - Posted by: peeps, 3/7/2018 8:22:42 PM     (No. 11565217)

Agree with #30. After cancer meds, radiation, and surgery, in my case the Hydrocodone helped me relax and heal better without pain. A body without pain and stress is a body that can focus on healing. This may not work in everyone´s case, but I bless the manufacturers of this drug that helped me heal. Not a drug addict.

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Hogg lets f-bombs fly in disturbing
interview: ‘Old a** parents’ don’t
know democracy, we have to fix it.

39 replie(s)
BizPac Review, by Samantha Chang    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 3/23/2018 12:34:43 PM     Post Reply
David Hogg has become the face of the Parkland high school shooting, eclipsing the tragic memories of the 17 victims who were murdered by Nicolas Cruz. Hogg has been rabidly elevated as a media celebrity by the mainstream press, who found a willing mouthpiece to push their anti-Second Amendment agenda. In a profanity-laced, rambling interview with The Outline, Hogg slammed the NRA and pro-Second Amendment politicians, calling them “sick f**kers.” (Video warning: language) The Outline hosts treated Hogg as if her were a Constitutional scholar and gun expert rolled into one. His answers proved, once again, he is neither. “It just makes

Ryan & McConnell Worked Hand-In-Hand
With Pelosi & Schumer To Fracture POTUS
Trump’s Support With Omnibus Bill

37 replie(s)
DCWhispers, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 3/23/2018 3:06:27 PM     Post Reply
President Trump signed the 1.2 trillion dollar Omnibus bill today with open frustration over both the process and the product of that bill. (Snip) What wasn’t said was how the Republican and Democrat leadership worked together to force POTUS Trump’s hand and create a voter backlash they hope will fracture Mr. Trump’s base of support among millions of Americans. “How could he sign this bill?” said one Trump supporter on Twitter. “WTF??? This was the opposite of MAGA,” said another. “Trump just gave 1.2 trillion to the swamp,” was another comment. If the above reactions represent the feelings of a majority

Trump threatens to veto spending
bill, risking shutdown

36 replie(s)
Politico, by Elano Schor, Burgess Everett*    Original Article
Posted By: M2- 3/23/2018 9:48:23 AM     Post Reply
President Donald Trump yanked the government back to the brink of a shutdown on Friday morning with a tweet threatening “a VETO” of a $1.3 trillion spending bill that Congress had cleared just hours earlier. Trump’s declaration of a possible veto — citing the spending bill’s lack of full funding for his border wall and attention to undocumented immigrants known as Dreamers — comes as many lawmakers who would have to override his rejection or pass a stopgap funding measure are already on the way out of Washington for a two-week recess. The president’s top aides said Thursday he would

President Trump Reluctantly Signs
Omnibus – MAGA Community Feels
a Little “Less Great” Today…

35 replie(s)
Conservative Treehouse, by Sundance    Original Article
Posted By: earlybird- 3/23/2018 4:38:44 PM     Post Reply
There’s no escaping the reality that today’s Omnibus spending bill is a significant slap in the face to Trump voters and supporters. The $1.3 trillion UniParty spending scheme is a bitter rebuke from the legislative branch. (Snip)FUBAR….. Cue the Wolfmoon: Again, Wolfmoon’s explainer more true today than it was a year ago: “Well, I don’t really have to do any holding together, now that I figured out what Trump is up to. He is shaking things out, but counting on Trump gravity to pull things back together as he moves along. He is moving “forward” at speeds Obama could not even dream of. You

Birthday bash: Shocking moment chairs
are thrown as fight breaks out during
grandmother´s birthday party at Golden
Corral leaving two people injured

33 replie(s)
Daily Mail [UK], by Gareth Davies    Original Article
Posted By: Ribicon- 3/22/2018 10:27:51 PM     Post Reply
A grandmother´s birthday party descended into chaos when a fight broke out at Golden Corral. Terrance Jones told officers responding to the incident he was celebrating his grandmother´s birthday when people set upon him in Peoria, Illinois. Chairs were thrown, tables were turned on their heads and the buffet section of the restaurant was damaged in the restaurant and two people were left injured by the melee. The injuries were sustained when two people were hit in the face by chairs. (Snip) The total damage was estimated at $1,700 with holes in the walls and shattered glass and two people - Terrance

Pennsylvania District Equips Classrooms with
Buckets of Rocks to Stone Mass Shooters

33 replie(s)
Gateway Pundit, by Jim Hoft    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 3/23/2018 11:56:07 AM     Post Reply
Schuylkill County officials are equipping classrooms with buckets of rocks to stone mass shooters. Dr. David Helsel made the announcement this week in Harrisburg. WNEP reported: (Video) McCall.com reported: Officials in Schuylkill County are planning to teach students to throw rocks at school shooters. The superintendent of Blue Mountain School District testified to a state committee in Harrisburg last week that each classroom in the school has been equipped with a five-gallon bucket of river stone, according to WNEP. “If an armed intruder attempts to gain entrance to any of our classrooms, they will face a classroom full of students armed

Rush Limbaugh: Watching Trump
sign spending bill was like seeing
him ´go back up´ the escalator

31 replie(s)
Washington Examiner, by Naomi Lim    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 3/23/2018 7:13:07 PM     Post Reply
Conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh said President Trump signing a $1.3 trillion omnibus spending bill into law on Friday made him feel like he was witnessing Trump "go back up" the escalator. "I try to be a guy governed by my thoughts, but I’m not liking the way I’m feeling. I’m feeling like I just saw Donald Trump get on the escalator and go back up," Limbaugh said on his radio show Friday, referring to the scene where Trump announced his candidacy for president in June 2015 at Trump Tower in New York City. While Limbaugh said he understood spending was necessary for

Anti-Gun Parkland Student David Hogg
Does Not Want His Backpack Rights
Infringed Upon

30 replie(s)
Breitbart Big Government, by John Nolte    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 3/23/2018 2:49:18 PM     Post Reply
Anti-gun Parkland high school student David Hogg is angry that his backpack rights are being infringed upon, reports Axios. The left-wing Axios sat down for a conversation with David Hogg, the gun control crusader the anti-gun media have made the most visible since a gunman massacred 17 people at his former high school. According to Axios, Hogg is upset with some of the new security protocols Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School is putting into place in the aftermath of last month’s mass shooting. Students will now be required to use clear, see-through backpacks only. The backpacks will be provided for

Michelle Obama admits her
vegetable garden schtick was all a ruse

27 replie(s)
American Thinker, by Monica Showalter    Original Article
Posted By: PageTurner- 3/23/2018 9:18:35 AM     Post Reply
In the midst of a flap about Washington Post pop-fashion writer Robin Givhan getting kicked out of a Black Entertainment Television conference for violating confidentiality, we learn something new about the Real Michelle Obama from Givhan´s reporting first spotted in a buried lede in a New York Post story: “The garden was a subversive act,” she said. “You can’t go in with guns blazing until people trust you.” The passage continues in the Givhan report in the Washington Post here: And there could be no reprimanding. No finger-wagging. Because she knew that her finger-wagging, a black woman’s finger-wagging, would be both amplified and

The Decline and Fall of Elizabeth Warren
27 replie(s)
Weekly Standard, by Fred Barnes    Original Article
Posted By: MissMolly- 3/24/2018 5:11:47 AM     Post Reply
The Trump era has been tough on Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), and no one has been tougher on her than President Trump himself, with his references to her as “Pocahontas.” With the nickname, the president is playing brass-knuckles politics to remind voters of her undocumented claim to Cherokee Indian heritage. To be politically correct, Warren says she is “part Native American” through her mother’s side of the family. Warren says she’ll fight back against Trump. “I went to speak to Native American leaders, and I made a promise to them,” she said in a TV interview. “Every time President Trump wants to

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