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Tariffs Are Taxes
National Review, by Larry Kudlow, Arthur B. Laffer*

Original Article

Posted By:zoidberg, 3/5/2018 7:26:30 AM

One of the ironies of trade protectionism is that tariffs and import quotas are what we do to ourselves in times of peace and what foreign nations do to us with blockades to keep imports from entering our country in times of war. Or consider that we impose sanctions on U.S. enemies such as North Korea, Russia, and Iran because we want them to feel the economic pain of being deprived of imports. But now we are imposing sanctions on our own country, putting up tariffs supposedly to make Americans more prosperous. If ever there were a crisis of logic

* and Stephen Moore


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Reply 1 - Posted by: saryden, 3/5/2018 7:31:53 AM     (No. 11562589)

Well, now we know about Kudlow and Laffer...

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Reply 2 - Posted by: lakerman1, 3/5/2018 7:41:46 AM     (No. 11562599)

DJT is a negotiator. This is a logical step in the negotiations.
The U.S. Steel industry and the U.S. aluminum industry were overcome by foreign competitors, in part because we helped Japan and Korea modernize their factories. (I have arbitrated in both industries, and speak with first hand knowledge.)
Tariffs/ negotiations on trade will give those two industries the incentives to modernize. And at that point, the tariffs can be removed.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: Grant Hodges, 3/5/2018 7:55:34 AM     (No. 11562608)

Kudlow and Laffer are good men. They just need to understand that the geopolitical cost of not having your own steel/aluminum industry is similar to the geopolitical cost of not being self-sufficient in energy.

If we take back steel production, the likelihood of war declines. Just like our taking back oil production reduced our likelihood of involvement in new wars.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: Spidey, 3/5/2018 8:03:32 AM     (No. 11562616)

This tarrif thing is the first thing I disagee with Trump on.This could start trade wars and have our products going overseas come to a screeching halt/ I have no idea who´s brainstorm this is but it´s not a good way to deal with our allies. It could bring the recovery to a screeching halt and a lot of good will going down the drain.It also feels like protectionism which I hate.The steelworker unions aren´t all of a sudden become Trump lovers.

There´s no one alive that´s a bigger trump lapdog than Kudlow and he´s even cam out against it.

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Reply 5 - Posted by: philsner, 3/5/2018 8:07:29 AM     (No. 11562621)

Okay then! Get rid of Trump and make Hillary president!

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Reply 6 - Posted by: jeffkinnh, 3/5/2018 8:09:49 AM     (No. 11562626)

If they are taxes, they are completely avoidable by buying American products that don´t have tariffs.

Tariffs are a way to balance out unfair trade practices to promote and preserve American industry. Just like not having enough energy production put us at a disadvantage, which has now been corrected by boosting our oil, gas, and coal production, not having enough manufacturing puts us at a disadvantage as well.

American manufacturing DOES need to be competitive but not necessarily the cheapest. We don´t produce the cheapest oil and gas, just at competitive costs. That prevents OPEC and others from slamming us in a market controlled by them. The same should happen in manufacturing. Labor unions screwed that up by escalating labor costs to the point that their industries were driven out of the country. But now, labor has been tamed somewhat.

Hopefully, we could get enough competitive business that foreign sourcing would not be able to control markets and we could have a solid job base here.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: JansGraphix, 3/5/2018 8:12:37 AM     (No. 11562629)

As I´ve mentioned before, America produces 70% of the steel that we use. China is #11 on the list and we only import 2% of their steel. Guess who´s the #1 importer? Canada. What other American industry produces 70% of the resources that we use? And yes, tariffs are just A TAX on the American people. WE are the ones who will pay. Not China or whoever. And now everything from soda and beer cans to soup cans to automobiles to housing and air conditioning are going to go up in price. And thousands and thousands of jobs will be lost. The beer industry employs 2 million. And the military uses tons and tons of steel and aluminum in jets and tanks and ships and munitions. This will in essence, cut our military.

I did not vote for Trump because of his Bernie Sanders, Herbert Hoover protectionist policies. I voted for him dispite those policies. And we need to let him know.

Its a shame when democrat ideals (like this one) are foisted upon this nation. Give it a couple of years. You´ll see. This could have been avoided. But, I´m guessing that Trump nor his liberal advisers ever heard of Herbert Hoover or the Smoot–Hawley Tariff act. Democrats view of history is fascinatingly absent from any sort of reason or logic relative to current events. And I´m guessing that the ´cult of personality´ persists from one President to the next, regardless of the outcome. What a shame. Say hello to higher prices, inflation and massive debt by the heavy hand of BIG govt folks. Tariffs do not create jobs. Tariffs destroy jobs. There will be repercussions.

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Reply 8 - Posted by: mikkins2, 3/5/2018 8:13:16 AM     (No. 11562630)

President Trump´s tariff recommendation are in answer to current economic warfare being waged on the United States. A war that was quietly being ignored by our government because of special interests.

The bottom line is wages. It is what drives the reason why countries like China wage this war and why Big Business and Wall Street are all for the status quo. China selling steel back to the United States at a loss is about driving jobs towards their economy. If they played on a fair playing field their economy would collapse resulting in a upheaval of their government system.
The average American worker has been the ones indirectly paying to perpetuate China´s bad government model by wage suppression for decades.

Bringing back jobs to the United States will not just bring back higher paying blue collar jobs the middle class used to have access to; it also drives wages across the board up as well as competition for workers to fill jobs increases. As the wages across the board increase so does the purchasing power of the American worker. Will some products go up; Yes, for a time but others will go down or remain stagnate in effect decrease in cost relative the the percentage of cost to the average workers income. Also, savings will increase allowing for bigger purchases by the middle class, which will drive demand UP for those products and all the components produced to make those products. The more that are produced in the United States, the more the economy as a whole will benefit as true free market forces work across the board and not just those that benefit Big Business and Wall Street.

President Trump is fighting for a TRUE Free Market economy.

(Make American Wages Great Again!)

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Reply 9 - Posted by: Watlines, 3/5/2018 8:54:05 AM     (No. 11562674)

Don´t dismiss president Trump´s tariff gambit as ham-handed economics.

While the rest of the world´s governments plan retaliatory responses, the president continues to play chess while others play checkers.

Give him time.

Watch this play out.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: plex, 3/5/2018 8:57:38 AM     (No. 11562681)

Perhaps only a small amount of raw steel comes from China, but China sells cheap steel to Canada which uses it in cars that are shipped to the US via NAFTA.

Americans are used to underpriced steel so a tariff will just bring the price to what a free market would have it be without the Chinese subsidies.

Someone did the arithmetic and a car price will rise by a whopping huge $350. Whew, break the bank.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: hpmatt, 3/5/2018 9:02:37 AM     (No. 11562689)

Canada and Mexico don’t make ANY steel - under NAFTA they import Chinese stell to US duty free - nice trick eh?

China make 2x more steel than they use - why? To export and destroy all other steelmakers - that have pollution controls.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: Clinger, 3/5/2018 9:05:27 AM     (No. 11562697)

No doubt a tariff is a tax as a tax can be a tariff. I’m more concerned with sustaining our sovereignty by assuring that we can’t be some other country’s sock puppet. To an extent I believe the whole Gulf War parts 1 & 2 were about Saudi Arabia and the control they held over us. Things are a bit different now aren’t they.

China slaps a 17% “tax” on imports, did they start a trade war? Europe averages around 20%. Did they start a trade war? Our government relies on income tax where our trading partners use the vat or “consumption based tax.” Our exports carry imbedded income taxes and then are greeted with a vat on the dock; they support our government and the destinations government. Exports from our friendly trading partners are exempt from the vat so that they support neither government. This would be like us removing all imbedded income taxes with a subsidy.

Before we get all bent out of shape we need to understand all of the forces grabbing at the playing field to know if we are leveling it, tilting it less in our partners favor, or attempting to tilt in in our favor.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: judy, 3/5/2018 9:24:08 AM     (No. 11562721)

Stop listening to the rich stock holders who love $$ more than their country. Tariffs are taxes works both ways. Let´s be fair. We give our jobs to foreign countries, we have open borders, we take their people, we give them welfare, food stamps...what do we get cheap goods....is it worth it? I´m old enough to remember when everything we needed was made in the US, we had plenty of jobs, we had little welfare, everyone worked, zero terrorism, low crime, high morale, discipline, law abiders...jobs made a better country. One job created equals 3 jobs.

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Reply 14 - Posted by: Whamdbambam, 3/5/2018 9:24:32 AM     (No. 11562722)

What about the indirect taxes on society coming from whole manufacturing sectors of our economy going out of business?

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Reply 15 - Posted by: TCloud, 3/5/2018 9:52:15 AM     (No. 11562769)

Dems and Rinos made their fortunes in Congress supporting policies for OTHER Countries by allowing non-fair duty free trade policies and allowing other Countries to play around with their currencies while simultaneously putting US Companies out of business!

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Reply 16 - Posted by: skeptical1, 3/5/2018 10:11:30 AM     (No. 11562799)

Lots of good comments here. This is a topic on which conservative-leaning people can make arguments on both sides. Trump is trying to re-industrialize the country by improving the business climate and making trade policy more pro-American. The authors think the first idea will work, and the second will backfire. They point to the evidence of history, but I think we need to take a closer look, because what we have been doing clearly has not worked, either. Perot was right, we did hear a giant sucking sound.

One of the great things about Trump is that he is not hung up on conventional pieties, left or right, but reverts to pragmatism and common sense. I´m comfortable just waiting to see how this works out.

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Reply 17 - Posted by: NYbob, 3/5/2018 11:07:59 AM     (No. 11562894)

Wow. No kidding. I guess I forgot the part where the instant President Trump says something, it becomes law. Of course that´s because I´m ´blinded´ by personality. LOL.

Didn´t anyone here negotiate anything? Everyone pays the listed price and everyone accepts the buyers first offer?

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Reply 18 - Posted by: dvc, 3/5/2018 1:19:46 PM     (No. 11563017)

According to Wikipedia, Canada produces 13.7 million metric tons of steel per year, and Mexico 20 million.
The USA produces 82 million metric tons and China produces 832 million metric tons.

China is the number one steel producer in the world, TEN TIMES US production.

Always keep in mind that there is a duality in ALL Chinese industry. They make TWO products, jobs and a product which is shipped to customers. Of the two products, the JOBS are the most important. China has literally billions of unemployed people looking for work, and they are desperate to employ them to keep them from becoming a revolutionary rabble. This is why they dump steel, they just need jobs.

We should let Trump run, I have been very happy with all he has accomplished so far, he has earned my perseverance without second guessing and jiggling his elbow when he is dealing.

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New York Times, by Kathleen Sharp    Original Article
Posted By: MissMolly- 7/21/2018 5:40:08 AM     Post Reply
SANTA BARBARA, Calif — From Malibu to Santa Cruz, wealthy people are blocking access to California’s publicly owned beaches. And no group has fought the public longer than the gated community of Hollister Ranch, about 130 miles north of Los Angeles. For more than 36 years, residents there have spent millions of dollars on lawyers and lobbyists to bar the hoi polloi from an 8.5-mile-long beach adorned with several coves. In May, after more than four years of litigation over public access to the beach, a settlement was announced between the ranch cooperative, on one side, and the California Coastal Commission


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