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It was wrong to bomb
Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Washington Examiner [DC], by Timothy P. Carney

Original Article

Posted By:StormCnter, 8/8/2013 4:32:33 AM

Ending a war is a good thing. Killing civilians a bad thing. Deliberately targeting civilians is murder, and is never morally licit, even in pursuit of a good thing such as ending a war. The tens of thousands of Japanese non-combatants we killed 68 years ago this week with two nuclear bombs were not “collateral damage” of military strikes. They were the intended targets. We hoped that mass murder would bring the Japanese emperor to surrender. It worked, and American and Japanese soldiers’ lives were probably saved by it —

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: Elvira, 8/8/2013 4:46:53 AM     (No. 9463764)

I prefer the counter argument by Michael Bar one, thank you.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: ZurichMike, 8/8/2013 5:02:47 AM     (No. 9463769)

I don´t think anyone involved in the Manhattan project knew exactly what the fallout (literally) would be from using nuclear bombs.

War is nasty business -- people die, thinks break. The sooner it´s over, the better. The more we as a nation wring our hands over "those poor dears" the more our enemies will live among the innocent and use them as a literal and figurative shield to our moral angst. The faster that innocent people realize that they are being used by their own people as pawns and shields, the faster they may *do something* about it before the bomb drops.

Hate to be cold and calculating -- but the loss of another American´s life in WWII was not worth protecting the sensibilities of milquetoast westerns apologizing for a country that went on suicide missions and who hurled themselves and their children off cliffs at the behest of their emperor (instead of being captured), and who started the damn war with the US to begin with.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: bkt23, 8/8/2013 5:17:04 AM     (No. 9463774)

No, it wasn´t wrong. If the Japanese had the bomb, they would have used it against us. Same with the Germans.

The objective was to end the war with our side as the victors. One doesn´t fight a war with the primary concern being avoiding civilian casualties.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: Blue hen1, 8/8/2013 5:23:52 AM     (No. 9463779)

Bad Monday morning quarterbacking. It saved thousands of American lives

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Reply 5 - Posted by: 49 Ford, 8/8/2013 5:33:52 AM     (No. 9463781)

I don´t post comments on articles I haven´t read, but I am going to make an exception this time:

PURE REVISIONIST BUNKO!

There, I feel better now.


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Reply 6 - Posted by: StormCnter, 8/8/2013 6:00:22 AM     (No. 9463792)

No one really knows, of course, how the war would have gone if the bombs hadn´t been dropped. But, I had at least one relative who was poised to be part of the first wave of a Japanese homeland invasion. He and who knows how many others were spared. That´s a very good thing.

However, I have never been completely convinced that the second bomb was necessary, Nagasaki. Opinions vary.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: FunOne, 8/8/2013 6:27:28 AM     (No. 9463808)

Yes, in 1945 the USA was committed to winning a war and demanding unconditional surrender by those who initiated hostilities on us.

If we had engaged in a "war" back then like we undertake it today, we would currently be fighting Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

Harry Truman would not recognize the Democrat party of today.



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Reply 8 - Posted by: dman, 8/8/2013 6:34:55 AM     (No. 9463811)

In my view, a life is a life is a life. A soldier´s life is no less (and arguably more) valuable than a civilian´s life. Our culture has protected civilians as the soldiers, not they, "fight" the war. In the modern era, that is no longer the case - especially in democratic systems. Civilians give birth to, make weapons for, pay taxes to support, and otherwise facilitate the soldiers. They are, like it or not, part of the war machine. Our enemies know that and it is time for us to stop the denial. We´re all in it together.

Soldiers are not "drones" destined to die for the rest of us. They are our (and their) sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, who had the courage to step forward. War is a necessary evil that should be waged in a way to avoid unnecessary loss of life - civilian and military alike.

There are valid arguments on both sides of the decisions to bomb Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and even Dresden. We mourn the loss of all who died, were wounded, and suffered in the wars waged to preserve our civilization. We must redouble our efforts to avoid these wars as much as possible - and to settle them as quickly as possible when they cannot be avoided.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: Keekng, 8/8/2013 6:37:13 AM     (No. 9463812)

#7m Egggggzackly! My brother came home from that war thanks to the A-bomb and a president who had the guts to do his job.

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Reply 10 - Posted by: Sfacheem, 8/8/2013 6:38:52 AM     (No. 9463814)

Not only was it right to bomb Japan, we should drop one right now on Tehran.

That´s right, I said it.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: NuGoddess, 8/8/2013 6:39:43 AM     (No. 9463816)

It is difficult (if not impossible) to understand the mindset of wartime Japanese people. How do you explain the mass hysteria that produced kamikaze pilots?

Japanese physicists made an aerial inspection wrought by Little Boy and immediately knew we had exploded a nuclear device; they petitioned the military to surrender. Firebrand nationalists were convinced America was bluffing and began their campaign to immediately invade the U.S. The Japanese people were prepared to die to the last - we spared those lives with the detonation of Fat Man.

Millions of lives - both Japanese and American - and years of war were avoided because Truman had the guts to drop those bombs. One could argue the merits of such warfare but nothing written or said 70+ years later will alter those facts.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: lonestarm3, 8/8/2013 6:44:10 AM     (No. 9463822)

The use of the atomic bomb was not only the right thing to do, it would have been immoral not to use it.

US military planners had scheduled the invasion of the Japanese homeland to occur a few months later. The expected allied deaths were in the tens of thousands and injuries in the hundreds of thousands with several times as many Japanese in both categories

The utopian critics can argue till hell freezes over, but the notion of intentionally sacrificing 50 or 60 thousand of our soldiers to avoid killing a slightly larger number of the enemy is absurd.

Despicably absurd.

As to the "but they were mostly civilians" is also silly.
In total war - a war for the survival of civilization - there are no "civilians."


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Reply 13 - Posted by: uno, 8/8/2013 6:46:13 AM     (No. 9463824)

The best arguments for using the bomb was exactly what #3 mentions. the Germans and the Japanese would have used it it they had it and a way to deliver it. Don´t think there wasn´t a race on to develop atomic warfare either because there was. Just as certain as they would have used it 68 years ago, cave-men in the Middle East will certainly use them today when they finally acquire them. Of that there is no question, and when they do Liberals won´t cite the fact that for 68 years we have been responsible care-takers of nuclear technology. No, they will blame America for using it 68 years ago to end a bad war we didn´t start!

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Reply 14 - Posted by: ruready?, 8/8/2013 6:53:51 AM     (No. 9463835)

You go to war to win, not die in vain. Sheesh.

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Reply 15 - Posted by: KTWO, 8/8/2013 7:01:54 AM     (No. 9463847)

#8 is right. Truman was deciding who would die And he chose more Japanese and fewer Americans.

But it wasn´t that simple. It wasn´t heads or tails. Probably more Japanese civilians would have died if we had not bombed. Certainly their military would have.

Japan´s military was determined to fight to the end even though the war was already lost. And they still had millions of relatively able troops to defend the home islands.

In a sense the leaders of Japan, men who absolutely would not face facts, made the decision for Truman. They just didn´t know it.

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Reply 16 - Posted by: silencedogood, 8/8/2013 7:04:49 AM     (No. 9463850)

I am sure Timmy would be singing a different tune if he had been on a troop transport ship en route to Japan in preparation for invasion.



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Reply 17 - Posted by: Bevan, 8/8/2013 7:09:43 AM     (No. 9463854)

Timothy should study a little history. More civilians were killed by Curtis Lemay´s fire bombing of Tokyo than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. War is hell. More so for bedwetters that never served.

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Reply 18 - Posted by: fleetusa, 8/8/2013 7:15:20 AM     (No. 9463860)

My Dad was trained to be an anesthesiologist in the medical M.A.S.H. units if we had to invade Japan. At the time they were worried about up to 500,000 casualties if the mainland was invaded based on Japanese fighting approaches in the islands.

One bomb would have been sufficient but the Japanese were so stubborn it took two.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: tanstaafl44, 8/8/2013 7:26:22 AM     (No. 9463875)

read this for the definitive response

http://vladtepesblog.com/2009/12/25/pajamas-tv-bill-whittle-speaks-on-hiroshima/

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Reply 20 - Posted by: Peaches, 8/8/2013 7:30:19 AM     (No. 9463883)

Sneak attack at Pearl Harbor plus declaration of war against U.S. equals Japan getting its comeuppance. No Pearl Harbor and no war declaration gives you no bomb. It´s pretty obvious.

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Reply 21 - Posted by: Hermoine, 8/8/2013 7:56:21 AM     (No. 9463924)

#4 -- Not only did it save countless American lives, but it mostly likely saved many more Japanese lives. Estimates are that hundreds of thousands of Japanese would´ve died had we invaded the homeland (some even estimated that 1 million lives would´ve been lost).

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Reply 22 - Posted by: provide, 8/8/2013 7:57:44 AM     (No. 9463930)

Boo hoo hoo. Ask the prisoners on the Bataan Death March what we should do.

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Reply 23 - Posted by: terrywhite, 8/8/2013 8:23:06 AM     (No. 9463960)

Correction # 10, not Tehran, but Mecca! Rid the world forever of that Godless religion!

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Reply 24 - Posted by: MattMusson, 8/8/2013 8:36:15 AM     (No. 9463992)

When the Japanese invaded the Chinese coast 44 million people lived there. When they left 34 million people were still there.

We laugh now at the portrayal of Japanese in those old war movies. The reality is they were MUCH WORSE.

If you doubt me, try reading the book FLYBOYS by James Bradley and find out what the Japanese staff officers did to American POW´s at Chichi Jima.

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Reply 25 - Posted by: Old Army Vet, 8/8/2013 8:38:16 AM     (No. 9463996)

It was right.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: StormCnter, 8/8/2013 8:46:45 AM     (No. 9464014)

Forty years ago, I read David Westheimer´s "Lighter Than a Feather", an alternate history novel set during the Allied invasion of Japan´s homeland. It´s written from the Japanese perspective and I have never forgotten that book. If you can locate it, I highly recommend it.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: zephyrgirl, 8/8/2013 8:54:25 AM     (No. 9464033)

The Japanese were preparing for an invasion by the U.S. and their plan was to inflict as many casualties as they could so that the U.S.would lose heart. It took fire bombing of major cities, two atomic bombs and the threat of many more to convince them to surrender. Even at that, it took them five days after Nagasaki. Further, there was an attempted coup by junior officers of the Japanese military who wanted to fight to the death. This was not a society that was going to give up easily. Anyone who doubts this should review the battle of Okinawa (100,000 Japanese troops and 65,000 American died, and one quarter of the island population died).

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Reply 28 - Posted by: grampus, 8/8/2013 9:07:47 AM     (No. 9464058)

At the time of the Battle of the Bulge, FDR asked about using the atomic bomb against the Germans....but learned that it was not yet ready. So much for those who inject a bit of race into Truman´s decision.

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Reply 29 - Posted by: Flashback, 8/8/2013 9:16:58 AM     (No. 9464075)

Annual revisionist crap. Tell it to the Marines.

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Reply 30 - Posted by: NorthernDog, 8/8/2013 9:49:08 AM     (No. 9464132)

Imagine the reaction from the American people if we had continued fighting Japan for another year, knowing we had 2 bombs that would quickly end the war. It was the right thing to do. It also gave Stalin pause in his attempt to grab Manchuria and northern Japan.

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Reply 31 - Posted by: toddh, 8/8/2013 10:08:49 AM     (No. 9464164)

Totalitarian regimes do not have civilians. Wanna talk aim points and factories? Thought not.

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Reply 32 - Posted by: Jennie C., 8/8/2013 10:11:46 AM     (No. 9464171)

Regarding the 2nd bomb: I have been told, by someone who was in the Philippines, poised for the invasion, that the initial Japanese thought was that we only had one bomb.

After Nagasaki, it was like, hmm, if they have two, maybe they have more. Hence, surrender.

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Reply 33 - Posted by: stablemoney, 8/8/2013 10:53:28 AM     (No. 9464251)

Send Timothy over to get Al Queda so we don´t have any collateral damage from the drones.

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Reply 34 - Posted by: BitterClinger, 8/8/2013 1:05:20 PM     (No. 9464491)

Here are two books that provide a great deal of information about that terrible time I believe too few are aware of.

Hell to Pay Operation DOWNFALL and the Invasion of Japan, 1945-1947
http://www.usni.org/store/books/ebook-editions/hell-pay

and

Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire
http://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-679-41424-7

Both books are available on Amazon and other booksellers.

If you read either or both you will understand what we would have faced had we invaded and also the "fog of war" our leaders had to contend with.

The books claim that the Japanese government was prepared to accept 20 million Japanese dead to achieve an armistice leaving the Japanese government at least partially intact. Our estimates, not fully shared with Truman, were a million American soldiers killed. Not casualties -- killed.

We used two bombs. There were seven more being assembled in the Philippines. MacArthur wanted to use them to destroy opposition at the beachheads.

If you read one or both of these books, you will not continue to repeat the shallow cliches about that time.

Both we and the Japanese people should be grateful Truman decided to use the bombs.




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Reply 35 - Posted by: harper, 8/8/2013 1:31:27 PM     (No. 9464541)

Among the many advantages of using both bombs was that it made it culturally possible for the Japanese to surrender. For every life lost on those 2 days, another 10 to 20 are alive because there was no kamikaze defense to an invasion.

No bomb, no surrender. Simple as that.

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Reply 36 - Posted by: saguni, 8/8/2013 4:22:44 PM     (No. 9464770)

One of the more vile and reprehensible actions of the modern "progressive" LIEberals is their habit of taking an event from history, stripping it of any context, then applying today´s morality to that event in order to "prove" how wrong "we" were in our history.

It fits this situation as well as the "Founding Fathers owned slaves" situation, or the "Founding Fathers thought blacks were only ´worth´ 3/5´s of a white man," two of the more common usages of this phenomenon.

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Reply 37 - Posted by: mathman, 8/8/2013 6:27:22 PM     (No. 9464962)

Had this author been consulted, I would have lost my father. He was 4-F during WW II. He got his 1-A notice in August 1945. He would have come home. Home in one of the 1,000,000 body bags which the Army had already ordered.
So don´t tell me the A-bomb was immoral.
The sole purpose of the military is to kill people and break things.
The A-bomb broke the will of the Japanese. They had no idea how many of the weapons we had (in fact we had only two at the time).
The military is called in when diplomacy fails. Japan indicated what they wanted when they destroyed Pearl Harbor. They wanted a fight to the death.
That is what we gave them.
And you can blame the partisans for the failure of the Germans to build their own A-bomb. Read about the destruction of the heavy water supply.
Bah. Humbug. Hogwash. This "person" should be sent to North Korea as a permanent resident.
Then we will see what he thinks.

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Reply 38 - Posted by: sw penn, 8/8/2013 9:43:28 PM     (No. 9465192)

To use the bomb or not...

Focus on Marpi Point.

Those who know what Marpi Point is,
don´t understand the question.

Those who don´t know what Marpi Point is,
don´t understand the answer.

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American Thinker, by J. Paul Masko    Original Article
Posted By: magnante- 4/19/2014 7:48:36 AM     Post Reply
I began reading the entirety of the first section of the New York Times at nine years old, and continued that practice, more or less, for decades.(snip) ...the power of reverence, intrinsic to what I call the “cascade” of The Times: the near avalanche-like flow and distribution of information through electronic and print networks: through like-minded network newscasts, magazines, local newspaper s, blogs, daytime talk TV, late-night entertainment, statements at media award ceremonies, the celebrity Twitterverse, etc. The cascade rolls through Saturday Night Live, Jon Stewart, The New Yorker, the mouths of third-grade teachers, Elmo, Madonna and Susan Sarandon …through

Barack Obama and the politics of lies
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Washington Examiner [DC], by Editorial    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 4/20/2014 5:45:25 AM     Post Reply
That was quite a victory dance President Obama did Thursday while claiming Obamacare is “working” because eight million people have now supposedly signed up for the health care program. He even indulged in some less-than-subtle mockery of Republicans - and by extension the majority of Americans who have disapproved of Obamacare since before it became law. "The repeal debate is and should be over,” Obama said, taking a dig at Republicans who are “going through, you know, the stages of grief … anger and denial and all that stuff …” But a president who is viewed by most Americans as less

In a Hole, Golf Considers
Digging a Wider One

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New York Times, by Bill Pennington    Original Article
Posted By: Pluperfect- 4/19/2014 10:48:33 AM     Post Reply
GREENSBORO, Ga. — Golf holes the size of pizzas. Soccer balls on the back nine. A mulligan on every hole. These are some of the measures — some would say gimmicks — that golf courses across the country have experimented with to stop people from quitting the game. Golf has always reveled in its standards and rich tradition. But increasingly a victim of its own image and hidebound ways, golf has lost five million players in the last decade, according to the National Golf Foundation, with 20 percent of the existing 25 million golfers apt to quit in the next few years. People under 35 have especially spurned the game, saying it takes too

Obama: ´For me, Easter is a story of hope,
a belief in a better day to come´

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Investor´s Business Daily, by Andrew Malcolm    Original Article
Posted By: SurferLad- 4/19/2014 9:16:36 AM     Post Reply
Hi, everybody. For millions of Americans, this time of year holds great meaning. Earlier this week, we hosted a Passover Seder at the White House, and joined Jewish families around the world in their re-tellings of the story of the Exodus and the victory of faith over oppression. And this Sunday, Michelle, Malia, Sasha, and I will join our fellow Christians around the world in celebrating the Resurrection of Christ, the salvation he offered the world, and the hope that comes with the Easter season. These holy days have their roots in miracles that took place long ago. And yet, they still inspire us, guide us, and strengthen us today. They remind us of our

Harry Reid calls dissident Nevada ranchers
´domestic terrorists´ following show of
force against the federal government

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Daily Mail [UK], by David Martosko    Original Article
Posted By: Attercliffe- 4/19/2014 9:29:17 AM     Post Reply
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Thursday that a family of dissident ranchers and their supporters in his home state of Nevada are ´domestic terrorists,´ citing this week´s standoff with the federal government´s Bureau of Land Management. Cliven Bundy has refused to pay grazing fees for land where his hundreds of cattle roam every day. The land is owned by the federal government, which says he owes more than $1 million. Bundy, however, insists that since his family has been using the land since the 1870s, Uncle Sam can´t collect the grazing fees. A tense standoff developed this week after

White House asks American parents to
monitor their children for signs of terrorism

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Daily Caller, by Eric Owens    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 4/19/2014 5:50:04 PM     Post Reply
In a speech earlier this week, Lisa O. Monaco, President Barack Obama’s assistant for homeland security and counterterrorism, insisted that American parents must be vigilant because their “confrontational” children could be on the verge of becoming terrorists. Monaco’s full, prepared text is available here. She presented the speech, entitled “Countering Violent Extremism and the Power of Community,” at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government on April 15. Monaco began her remarks by eloquently describing the lives tragically lost last year during the Boston Marathon bombings. Interestingly, the Harvard grad failed to mention the religion or the motive of brothers Dzhokhar and Tamerlan

Ted Cruz, Invoking Reagan,
Angers GOP Colleagues
but Wins Fans Elsewhere

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Wall Street Journal, by Monica Langley    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 4/19/2014 8:09:17 AM     Post Reply
WASHINGTON--Rushing to an afternoon vote last month, Sen. Ted Cruz hopped the underground tram to the U.S. Capitol from his office across the street. The Texan planted his black ostrich cowboy boots in the middle of the small subway car without getting so much as a nod from the other senators--Republican or Democrat--amiably chatting or huddled in their seats. Mr. Cruz finds himself standing alone a lot these days. His response to the cold shoulders: "The establishment despised Ronald Reagan" before he became president, "but the people loved him." For the 43-year-old Republican, the Reagan name illuminates his political life´s

Stop dressing so tacky for church
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CNN, by John Blake    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 4/20/2014 4:40:56 AM     Post Reply
If the Rev. John DeBonville could preach a sermon to lift the souls of churchgoers across America, his message would be simple: Stop dressing so tacky for church. DeBonville has heard about the “come as you are” approach to dressing down for Sunday service, but he says the Sabbath is getting too sloppy. When he scans the pews of churches, DeBonville sees rows of people dressed in their Sunday worst. They saunter into church in baggy shorts, flip-flop sandals, tennis shoes and grubby T-shirts. Some even slide into the pews carrying coffee in plastic foam containers as if they’re going to Starbucks. “It’s like

Clintons celebrate Chelsea’s
pregnancy announcement

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New York Post, by Stephanie Smith    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 4/19/2014 8:32:52 AM     Post Reply
The Clintons had a busy night of celebrations after Chelsea announced she and husband Marc Mezvinsky are expecting a baby. Bill joined “House of Cards” star Kevin Spacey at the Revlon Rainforest Fund Benefit Concert at Carnegie Hall Thursday, joking of Spacey’s Machiavellian character, “When I was president people accused me of murder all the time, made a show of investigating. Spacey’s president for 15 minutes and he gets away with murder.” Spacey, who sang during the event with Sting, Stephen Stills and James Taylor, also showed off his Johnny Carson impression, taking a swipe at the coverage of Flight

The Growing Financial Disaster of Obamacare
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Power Line, by John Hinderaker    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 4/19/2014 5:55:20 PM     Post Reply
President Obama asserts that 8 million people have signed up for Obamacare, as though that were something to be proud of. In fact, Obamacare has always been a fiasco from a fiscal perspective–a black hole of subsidies and expanded Medicaid, with largely fictitious mechanisms in place to pay for it. As the number of subsidized participants grows, the disaster gets worse. Charles Blahous explains: Our national discussion…is missing the truly significant story here; what is unfolding before our eyes is a colossal fiscal disaster, poised to haunt legislators and taxpayers for decades to come. It is quite possible that the ACA is

Gospel story of Jesus’ resurrection a
source of deep rifts in Christian religion

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Washington Post, by Kimberley Winston    Original Article
Posted By: NorthernDog- 4/19/2014 10:46:11 PM     Post Reply
“On the third day, he rose again.” That line, from the Nicene Creed, is a foundational statement of Christian belief. It declares that three days after Jesus died on the cross, he was resurrected, a glimmer of the eternal life promised to believers. It’s the heart of the Easter story in seven little words. But how that statement is interpreted is the source of some of the deepest rifts in Christianity — and a stumbling block for some Christians, and more than a few skeptics. Did Jesus literally come back from the dead in a bodily resurrection, as many traditionalist


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