Until I began reading Brad Thor´s thriller, "Black List", I was undecided about whistleblower Edward Snowden. The plot of this novel is eerily similar to the NSA scandal and involves an IT whiz who discovers that the government is collecting data on American citizens, not terrorists, to control our lives and she steals the proof but is hunted down and killed. Maybe Snowden blew the whistle because the extent of the data collection and how it is being used by this administration terrified him. The irony is that the book was published in 2012 before the IRS and AP scandals.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
lil dotty, 7/4/2013 2:25:31 AM (No. 9408115)
This character has certainly stirred up a hornets nest. If he has secrets on our national security no doubt about it, he is a traitor. But if he has done this to pull the curtain aside to show the country our magic mulatto in all his nakedness, we should be examining closely just what he is attempting to expose. At the moment we are aware something in DC is happening which doesn´t appear in history books. Chief Justices who pull laws out of hats. Newly elected congressman who seem to change overnight to become easy prey to any predator lurking in the shadows. Do any doubt that THIS oval office would not do anything they could to grab power and hold it by whatever means possible? This includes, blackmail, extortion, and murder. If there is any evidence of that, WTP need to see it. As for the leaker´s oath he might have taken when he took the job...did not every government worker take an oath as well? Both elected officials or contracted employees? In a society that has no moral core, oaths mean little or nothing. They certainly did not matter one iota to either this creature in the oval office, our supreme court, nor our congress critters.
I thought from the beginning that he was a hero but wobbled recently when I saw he had included China in his asylum requests. That could have just been an indication of his desperation, though, coupled with an apparent fondness for Chinese culture.
It just strikes me that he would have to have had noble intentions, combined with a taste for the dramatic and exotic, to do something that surely he knew would make him a fugitive and sweep the rug from under his life like this -- and to have become very, very disillusioned. Plus there was his very credible video.
But didn´t it happen very rapidly? That´s what a lib friend used to discredit him -- the fact that he had only worked there a month or however briefly. But I don´t think that would necessarily matter.
I don´t know enough to form an opinion. Snowden is a modern day Daniel Ellsberg.
Is it an American´s patriotic duty to stay quiet when they learn that the government is systematically breaking the law and ignoring our Constitution and destroying out right to privacy, and a number of other laws?
I love America, and fought for this conutry under three presidents and it took me sometime to admit to myself that our current government is corrupt, and it is run by people who want complete and total power over us. It seems they will do anything and stop at nothing to make that happen.
My question is, if Snowden is a traitor, then who´s America is he violating?
After considerable thought about him and what he has done, I´ve come to the conclusion that he may not be a hero, but his revelations are indeed heroic. His motives aren´t entirely pure, and he has divulged information that already has been used by our enemies to change their tactics. So he´s not a hero.
But the revelation that our government has set up a comprehensive surveillance and intelligence gathering system encompassing every citizen IS indeed a heroic and hugely important action. This program is unequivocally unconstitutional. It must be drastically curtailed and controlled. And if this revelation hadn´t been made public, the likelihood is that it would have continued to grow and become an Orwellian menace to all of us.
please....everyone...for your own good...read the question #7 poses...it answers itself in my mind...i too served and bought the lie that our government would never turn into ravenous wolves...well...here we are....as the wolves lick their lips...exactly #7...whose America,exactly,is he a traitor to?
The Be a Good Neighbor ins. co is offering a free GPS to be installed in your car in exchange for a premium reduction. It came in the mail yesterday. My other half couldn´t resist the fee techy stuff plus the promise to have a rate reduction. Not in my car you don´t.
It´s a terrible thing to say but every economic, ethical, foeign affairs, you name it, problem brought on by the actions of this administration bring us closer to the end of liberal dominance. There is no way out except through great adversity.
Without siding either with or against Snowden [I am still conflicted] I would just point out that Snowden did NOT take an oath to support and defend the administration but rather to support and defend the country and the Constitution. It is possible to both love your country and fear its government.
Remember, both the republicians and the democrats targeted the Tea Party. Why was Sarah not even allowed to speak a the republican national convention?? Our previous vice presidential candidate was muzzled by our republican leaders.
Both the republicans and democrats hate the Tea Party and love their power. It stands to reason that both would panic at what Snowden has revealed. Notice that McCain and Lindsey Graham seem to want Snowden captured most of all.
I´d answer "yes" to the headline question, but I still perceive many of L-dot´s legacy commenters, who seem to know much more than me about these things (and, like me, detest this regime), continue see Snowden as a traitor.
Kinda makes one wonder why, if we have all of this information, why isn´t being used to profile and track real threats to society, like terrorists, pedophiles and other hard core criminals. It does appear that it is being used for political purposes and political purposes only.
Especially on this day, let us remember that a person can be both a hero and a traitor. Those brave men who signed the Declaration of Independence are our heroes, but clearly they were traitors to King George and the British.
If you sat down at your desk and saw what he saw what would you do?
Yes the question #7 poses is similar to the question Colon poses. How is this information being used? To bring down peaceful voters or to stop people who blow little children´s legs off? The answer is in the success.
I suspect that Snowden knows a lot more things about the Obama administration. What we´ve heard thus far may well just be the tip of the iceberg. Remember that Obama is a control freak. Like all control freaks, he wants to control the narrative. He has a media firewall protecting him too.
Geez, #17, "the myth is not fact. Governor Palin was offered a time slot and date she didn´t like, so she declined to appear. No one prevented her from doing anything."
Nowhere do we see where she was "offered a time slot"...
But she did graciously announce, "This year is a good opportunity for other voices to speak at the convention and I’m excited to hear them. As I’ve repeatedly said, I support Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan in their efforts to replace President Obama ..."
Alicia answers the headline if you read btw the lines...
Thank you #29, for your equally insightful question. What would you do?
I don´t know who or what Snowden is, but we are all better for the information, aren´t we? How many of you stopped using social media? Pulled down your FB page? I´d like to see those stats.
Of course, the press wouldn´t mention it. After all, they are friends providing any manner of information to this administration, too, aren´t they?
And thank you, Alicia, for the mention of Cain. He also was the earliest person to have Secret Service protection in the history of elections. I read one time, in a single article that he and his family "received threats." Does that make you wonder?
Please forgive a second post, but #6, this kid is really very, very smart. He may have virtually unlimited knowledge on some entities. If you work from that, everything becomes possible. What if China was a head-fake? What if that extradition paperwork was really filled out correctly? What if he has the same kind of dirt on other countries? The NSA was spying on all of them, after all.
What if the guy in the Moscow airport isn´t even him? Could he blackmail Putin (who is a real former-KGB creepazoid, remember) to protect himself?
There´s no telling. (Which is why this story has us all captivated.)It´s like a political thriller in real life.
Obama has secrets, too, don´t forget. Suddenly he seems most disinterested in Edward Snowden.
Of course he´s a hero. Anyone who has actually read his statements and the one this week from his father knows Snowden´s motivation. He´s a modern day Paul Revere. Revere made it his mission to warn his fellow countrymen of the British plot to seize their arms. Revere was also captured the government (the Brits) during his ride, but managed to get away.
Snowden is unlikely to have that luck if he is captured by our government. If we are lucky, though, he will go down in history as one of the few who risked his life and sacred honor to make America a more free nation.
As usual Mrs Alicia gives words to my thoughts. I am glad that Snowden brought to light so much that many of us instinctively believed was going on. However, he betrayed us to China and Russia. The mixed feelings that Mrs Alicia voices are like my own. I am very suspicious of our government. The ´rulers´ seem to target good citizens more than they do those who seek to harm the country. The Boston Bombers were not given much of a look while Tea people are being targeted. Who can trust a government that spies on its own citizens and keeps a record of all they do? I sure do not. Bush opened the door to Big Brother and Obama turned the government into our jailor.
I read the book when it first came out and it scared the heck out of me since I had seen how this administration operates enough by then. No administration should have this access. For years I have been telling my kids the downside to all this tech stuff as we all have become more addicted to it. It is hard to say what truly motivated Snowden but,like others , I am glad the info got out. People need to know this and I think this has gone mainstream enough that even some of the lo fos have gotten it.
Excellent review of all the evil the government can do and the control over people they can exercise using the available tools. I´m not as sure as Alicia that they´re actually doing that much domestic surveillance and control right now (it would still be illegal) but they certainly could. 1984 is now possible and this is exactly the sort of administration that would bring it about. As to Snowden, Alicia is right on that, Obama is not trying hard to capture him. It´s to Obama´s benefit to have him out there drawing attention away from more dangerous (for Obama) scandals like the IRS and Benghazi.
Starting at square one, is the Obama Administration spying on and gathering data about innocent American citizens for control purposes and for election fixing. As a matter of fact are police and government entities following your every move with cameras and GPS chips. There was an article the other day that stated police car cameras now take pictures of all car license plates that they encounter when driving. Look at the cameras at intersections and on electronic speed signs. This IS 1984 only later than previously predicted.
What they didn´t count on was someone as efficient and smart as Snowden. If you worked for these data collection agencies, and knew specifically what they were doing, how would you blow the whistle on the personal invasions and election fixing by government organizations. As the guy said in Catch 22, they are going to disappear me.
Of course they fixed the last Presidential election. The IRS, NSA, TSA, ETAL made sure of that. If Snowden wanted to escape to a country that wouldn´t extradite him, it sure wouldn´t be to a place that is doing the same thing in coordination with the same government. I´m with Alicia.
On this Independence Day, I rank Snowden right up there with those that signed the Declaration of Independence. They knew they would be branded traitors by the most powerful nation on earth. They knew that their lives and those of their families as they had lived them were over. They knew that many of their friends and neighbors would gladly turn them over to the British. Many of them were imprisoned or killed. Thus is the fate of Mr. Snowden. The best he can hope for is a sad life in a lousy country. More likely is prison or death.
Very disappointed. Snowden is not a character in a book. He is not a hero. A hero would follow the whistleblower act and give the info to someone like Rand Paul. Ellsberg gave his info to Congressman Pete Stark. Snowden went to Hong Kong (China), then Russia, and asked for asylum in Cuba, Ecuador, Venezuela, etc. Not a hero. Possibly a dupe.
The government that Mr. Snowden has exposed, along with the media lapdogs that are it´s mouthpiece will certainly brand him a traitor. and certainly,if he gives these secrets to our enemies, at is traitorous.
By the same token, do our allies and enemies honestly believe we don´t spy and them and vice versa? Of course not, but it makes for great theatre and bluster for to show outrage to their masses, and embarrass us again.
I do believe his actions are heroic as a former poster said. If the release of this information forces a change in the govern,, and we are able to shift the "watching" to those that mean us harm, not for a government to harm us, the history will call him a hero. If not, he´ll be another blot in the Obama destruction zone.
The brilliant Ms. Colon presents, as usual, a very balanced case, but as # 32 suggests, we can guess which way she´d vote.
Why, on this INDEPENDENCE DAY, is there even any question that what he did was good...and heroic?! Our government has taken away our freedom, violating especially the 4th Amendment ("The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizure,...") and the 1st.
Is your speech ´free´ with the restrictions imposed by "Political Correctness," "Hate Speech," and now the revelation that you are being constantly monitored?
Please, Google Panopticon ("The concept of the design is to allow a watchman to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) inmates of an institution without them being able to tell whether or not they are being watched.") and Mass Surveillance ("the pervasive surveillance of an entire population, or a substantial fraction thereof.") to get a better idea of how much of our liberty has been lost.
#29 poses the question: "What would you do?" At another time in our illustrious history. an unquestionably heroic American answered it thusly: "...I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
I tend to see Snowden as a hero. If he isn´t, why would the WH paint him a traitor? Perhaps going to Hong Kong was a mistake, but with a Justice department like this and what he knew, he obviously doesn´t trust our government. Everything this administration thinks is correct, is wrong. Everything they believe is wrong is right (conscience rights, e.g.). This is Independence Day, a day paid for our freedoms with the blood of Patriots. Where are the Patriots of today?
Well, Snowden is supported by Oliver Stone, Noam Chomsky, Katrina van den Heuvel, Rosanne Barr, John Cusack, and a host of other left-wing luminaries. I assume their reasons for regarding him as hero would differ from those on the right.
Snowden has with him four laptops full of highly classified, very sensitive information that, make no mistake, China and Russia have long since gained access to. Snowden told the Germans the details of an anti-Al Quaeda operation; Al-Quaeda now has those details.
Alicia - thanks. I appreciate Snowden bringing this nastiness into the light, but I am sad at how it happened, and worried. Very worried. Snowden is a traitor by all definition and if we make exceptions to the rule.. well, we can´t.
Outside of the neighborhood where I live in rural Utah I am a nobody. The government is not interested in anything I have to say or do. They will not search my emails or make note of the conservative blogs I open each morning i.e. Drudge Report, Lucianne.com, World Net Daily; Fox News etc. I am not at all concerned. BUT, if I were to run for public office and pose a threat to one of their congressmen or senators, the would spy on me with a vengeance to engage in “opposition research”. This is where the abuse begins because I would be viewed by Obama as a greater threat than Middle East terrorists. My privacy would then be open season for political reasons. So much for the promises that it will take a court order.
Of course, if he´s a hero he may be a flawed hero in that he did not go by the Whistleblower Protection Act, and he was surely foolish in worldly terms. But maybe he felt that whoever he went to would not feel the urgency and that the impact would be diluted. As for any info that China got - I´m a little skeptical that it´s anything they didn´t already know as I´m afraid they have wormed their way in and are firmly ensconced here and there at the highest levels. Hope I´m wrong about the extent.
As for a lot of leftists also considering him a hero -- that is not always a valid basis for an opinion. The right and the left do often coincide - for example on certain libertarian issues. No one wants to be spied on, right or left.
The whistleblowers that went before have been ignored by Obama and the DOJ. Techdirt reports that Snowden is not the first WB. And the sounding of the alarm over NSA surveillance has been going on for at least the last ten years. He´s just the most effective
I have seen other posters complaining that Snowden went first to Hong Kong and Russia to release his information. In fact, he first went to our very own Washington Post (of Watergate fame). The Post refused to publish Snowden´s details about the Prism program, so Snowden ended up at the Guardian (a British newspaper). He only went to Hong Kong to prevent incarceration or death.
The story has parallels to the life of Thomas Paine. He wrote Common Sense and was behind much of the passionate rhetoric that kept our American Revolution going during the late 1700´s. As a consequence, he was also jailed for a good deal of time, and had to spend years in France to escape incarceration by the British. (France being a de-factor enemy of Britain at the time, much as China is our de-facto enemy now). When he came to America in 1802, he was still so despised by the Federalists that he had to register under an assumed name.
Another excellent and thoughtful article by Ms. Colon - one very worthy of our interest and dissection.
Mr. Snowden is a very young man in lots of trouble. It is difficult to ascertain motives and sympathies. However, the information that the likes of Roseanne Barr and Oliver Stone support him may be in itself a ruse. The liberals know that conservatives abandon those whom they support. The liberals may be launching an all-out effort to try to sway conservatives away from supporting him. But, then, again...
Clearly Snowdon is a traitor and he should be pardoned or given immunity for his co-operation it giving evidence to imprison the traitors in high office who are doing far more damage to the country and our constitutional freedoms. Isn´t that standard procedure in law enforcement to give immunity to the small fish in order to get the big fish?
To answer the question, ask yourself what you would do if you found out the government was spying, without judicial process, on millions of innocent Americans. That it was storing that data and using it against Americans that had no connection to terrorism. What if Justin Carter were your son? What if you learned that the data was to be used against anyone who does not agree with BHO?
#64, first of all - Snowden is basically a lib; he voted for Obama, after all, so one would not exactly expect him to go to the Washington Times. It would be natural for him to go to media that had credibility with him and vice versa.
Secondly - which DC paper broke Watergate and brought down a president? A Republican president, but still...
Third - yes, historically The Guardian was a leftist rag and editorially is still lib - but hardly viciously so, and seems quite mainstream now. Their piece today about the Fourth is friendly and admiring. The emigre Brit writes, "Lord knows, America is far from perfect... For all that, the United States of America still holds up a corruscating example to the world: ´We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.´"
Also, thanks to #63 for saying in two lines what it took me several to say earlier - "I vote hero. Only a young male could do something so idealistic, yet so stupid for himself as far as long-reaching effects on his life go." , Historically, women can be just as crazy and idealistic.
And finally, Snowden went first to visit the Chicoms.
No real good answer for that one eh? Well, I thought not mysel ~ unless he´s one of theirs, or wants to have his franchise bought out.
Last thing after ´finally´, I pointed out on numerous internet boards, and even here at Lucianne.com, and other well known spots that at this very moment the United States Gub´mnt is operating a mail cover operation that allows cross correlation of all O and D as well as intermediate processing steps ~ for all letter mail sent by anyone to anyone inside or outside the USA.
The metadata with mail covers is as powerful as anything Snowden reported NSA to be doing with regard to domestic communications.
I reported that right here to people in high dudgeon over what Snowden said he was reporting on AND NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE SAID ´Oh, my gawd, that´s horrid´ ~ nor do you seem to recall that Richard Nixon hissef´ got caught doing this and all the Leftwingtards of his day were out for his scalp over that!
Which means that about 99.99999% of the people bemoaning the fate of the world at the hands of the Metadatist monster have no idea at all what they are talking about.
Neither does Snowden. He´s just another commercial spy.
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