The most passionately anti-Obama Republican politicians and activists consider themselves the truest and purest of conservatives, and often unleash their scorn and fury on others who also call themselves conservative but differ on strategy and tactics. But in the realm of philosophy, “conservatism” from Thomas Hobbes onward is a worldview dedicated to order and tradition and the proposition that disorder is dangerous and deadly. Thus, it is the opposite of “conservative” to embrace chaos instead of order. It is the opposite of “conservative” to embrace crisis rather than accept unpleasant realities.
No, John Podhoretz is speaking the truth. There are a lot of conservatives out there who think the speaker has a magic wand that he can wave and do what no one can do: change the dynamics on capital hill to what they would be had the Republicans won the white house and senate. He is in a "no win" position. His party couldn´t win the election and therefore controls only one-half of one branch of government, but he is supposed to drive policy? It doesn´t work that way. Welcome to reality, you spoiled nincompoops.
Boehner put himself in this position to begin with by secretly crafting this ´fiscal cliff´ drama prior to the election. What did he think was going to happen? Did he really think Obama was going to make some good faith effort to cut spending? I am not a political strategist but I am smart enough to have that one figured out. Sorry Podhoretz but we have every reason to be livid about this so save your lectures.
I think the new generation of Conservatives would agree that the signifying characteristic of the old generation of conservatives is their ability to CAVE. I don´t consider that anything to admire or desire. If you can´t get the job done leave.
Alright, you win. I concede the term ´conservative´. I absolve myself from fiddling with this ridiculous argument while my country and its Constitution burn. As I no longer consider myself a ´Republican´, I will no longer consider myself a ´conservative´. I am now a Radical.
Just for the record, before the definition game gets started:
RADICAL, adj. 1. of, relating to, or proceeding from a root
2. of or relating to the origin : fundamental
3. favoring extreme changes in existing views, habits, conditions, or institutions
4. advocating extreme measures to retain or restore a political state of affairs
RADICALISM, n. The conservatism of tomorrow injected into the affairs of today.
You miss a very important point, Mr. Podhoretz. Sometimes disorder and chaos are a messy but necessary part of restoring the order that should be.
I will take the chaos of freedom over the order of vassalage any day, and I take great umbrage at the idea that current political reality requires that I and my children wear chains - ´just for a little while´. There was much more that the speaker - and others in the House - could have done. One big thing would have been to get the public´s awareness much earlier, while they still had a fighting chance of presenting something reasonable to be voted on. Media blackout is no excuse. There are commercials, there are billboards, there is the internet, there are street corners! But that would have cost them something and they are not willing to pay. That´s for us to do.
Lacking the ins and outs and not appreciating the difficulties, it is nevertheless difficult to be impressed or feel secure with the current Republican leadership. They aren´t very good at getting their message out and across to the public. Sometimes I wonder if they even understand that this is now the name of the game. They seem to think that the way it works is that politicians huddle and talk among themselves and then announce their decisions to the rest of us. Obama and the Democrats know better and are always talking to the public. Republicans are just props for them. Boehner and others on our side sometimes seem completely clueless as to what is actually going on. It is not that Democrats are not negotiating in good faith. They are not negotiating at all. The whole thing is for show - and Reublicans have so far been playing along with it and acting like they actually believe negotiation of some kind is going or or about to begin.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
Bad Dog, 1/4/2013 7:25:55 AM (No. 9097810)
´´This is anarchism, not conservatism.´´
Welcome to our hell, Mr. Podhoretz. We´ve recognized this for some time. To refer to John Boehner´s ´´fellow conservatives´´ is a joke.
Call it purity if you want, but SOMEONE has to hold true to the definitions of what we´re ALL supposed to stand for! Democrat-Lite and continually leaning leftward will have us voting totally socialist in no time - that´s if we´re even ALLOWED to continue voting. After all, the super-smarts of our nation have DONE SO WELL (bah!) getting us out of every mess THEY CREATE.
I hereby nominate post #8 as Best Post on Any Thread Whatsoever, To Date. Right on, #8.
Ah, come on. Forget the stupid last week. Lower rates are locked in for most people. The debt ceiling fight will be fought on our own turf. What´s Barry gonna do, raise taxes? He just did. Now he´s going to have to cut spending. It´s the Alamo for our side. Stop fighting among ourselves. Most Americans know it´s the spending that´s killing us. Just forget the Pravda media and hang tough. It´s the perfect time in the biennial for this fight.
Our side´s inability to get its message out is a chronic problem of many years standing. In truth, we haven´t been willing/able to do so since RR left the White House and Lee Atwater passed on. To expect a few congresscritters of the defeated party to get through to a nation anesthetized by Obama and suffused with a handout mentality just isn´t realistic.
Since 11/6 the GOP has been faced with two choices: 1. accept that taxes on some upper income levels were going to increase and fight to keep those increases to a minimum, or 2). hold out for a principle that maybe 20% of the electorate understands and end up with tax increases for everyone along with sequestration - and be deep fried by the Democrat/MSM cabal for allowing it to happen.
Good luck going into 2014 with the latter being hung around our necks.
JPod and poster #3 are right - there is no magic man or silver bullet technique which could have denied Obama & the Dems some level of tax increase. The election results ensured that.
What Messrs. Boehner and McConnell did is not the issue. Podhoretz´a point that there was little choice after the election, is not as worthy of scorn as some posters have positioned. Why they might have done it is the key. If this action was taken (i.e. ´rolling over´ and giving the ´Rats what they wanted) out of fear that they and the MSM will successfully blame and the Republicans, who will then lose their jobs, then it is indeed despicable. Because when the debt ceiling comes up Zippy will threaten to stop the Social Security checks and the terror of being blamed will once more make the Republicans fold. This has been a calculated strategy of the Left since they lost to Richard Nixon in a forty nine state landslide. However, if this was done in deliberate calculation of two points, One, the Republicans were getting most of what they have wanted. While controlling only a third of the government that is not a bad outcome and Two, it will get tax rates off the table and they will successfully be able to force 0bama to talk about cutting ´expenses´ - which really is a euphemism for free entitlements. Time will tell.
Look. The leading republicans, after this last election, announced they would be following the dems game plan and agendas. They believed that, according to the dems win and the polls, that the republican party needs to be more like the dems in order to succeed. THEY TOLD US WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO, AND NOW THEY HAVE STARTED DOING IT. They (republicans)also claim they will be getting on board the dem´s trains regarding immigration and gun control. They told us, they have acted as dems and are planning on continuing down this road. What are the "conservative" voters going to do about that?
There are some really great comments on this thread. For my two cents I will reiterate an analogy I made during the primaries, with some modifications. Obama and his cronies broke into my house with the intention of raping my wife and daughter. The rinos, the only cops around, told him they would not accept that; they are only allowed to rape my daughter. Thanks guys. My confidence in you is boundless.
I stand with #8 and #10. This is the attitude--the philosophy--that must inform our strategy for keeping our great country strong. Kudos to you, #8. I am a Radical. To conservatives shifting uncomfortably, I say: Deal with it.
For my two cents, I have never seen John Boehner or Mitch McConnell as "Conservatives", they have always impressed me as Republicans leaning in the Democrat-lite direction. Perhaps they are filling the void for the now extinct Blue Democrats.
Just another hit piece on Conservatives. yawn. All this does is bring out the Moderates from behind Boehner´s skirt to post on L.COM blaming Conservatives for all the ills of the Moderate led GOP. Conservatives within the GOP have NO power and yet when the Moderates fail, Conservatives get the blame.
Perhaps a better, prior, question is: What possessed Republicans to pass the legislation that made the "fiscal cliff" possible? I.e., the package of "sequestrations", tax increases, etc. that set pu this whole mess.
Washington -- Federal authorities investigating the deadly attack on the U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi have filed charges against Ahmed Abu Khattalah, leader of a Libyan militia that officials believe was involved in the assault, people briefed on the investigation said. The charges under seal are the first criminal counts to emerge from the probe. The investigation of the attack last September 11 that killed Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others continues, these people said, as investigators try to build their case against Khattalah and others who authorities believe were involved.
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