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The Monster of Monticello
New York Times, by Paul Finkelman

Original Article

Posted By:jackson, 12/1/2012 7:48:46 AM

THOMAS JEFFERSON is in the news again, nearly 200 years after his death — alongside a high-profile biography by the journalist Jon Meacham comes a damning portrait of the third president by the independent scholar Henry Wiencek. We are endlessly fascinated with Jefferson, in part because we seem unable to reconcile the rhetoric of liberty in his writing with the reality of his slave owning and his lifetime support for slavery. Time and again, we play down the latter in favor of the former, or write off the paradox as somehow indicative of his complex depths.

Comments:
How stupid is this article? Let me count the ways... A perfect example of political correctness, bogus history, hatred of our past, and mind-numbingly pretentious crap.
All brought to you by the great newspaper of record.

      


Post Reply  

Reply 1 - Posted by: ruready?, 12/1/2012 7:54:10 AM     (No. 9042577)

Whether or not one believes in evolution, selection pressure is undeniable. Since liberals are "less hearty" than conservatives, we are always only one economic collapse away from returning to freedom.

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Reply 2 - Posted by: StormCnter, 12/1/2012 7:54:57 AM     (No. 9042578)

When I saw it at 30 AM, I was very much hoping no one would post this ugly piece.

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Reply 3 - Posted by: kanphil, 12/1/2012 8:00:40 AM     (No. 9042584)

Next thing you know, they will be chipping Jefferson´s face off Mount Rushmore to make room for Obama. What vermin these liberal academics are.

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Reply 4 - Posted by: mws50, 12/1/2012 8:01:15 AM     (No. 9042586)

You educated idiots cannot get away from your extreme left wing bias to produce anything worth reading, or even remotely factual.

Thanks, Henry Wiencek and Paul Finkelman, for verifying, once again, that journalism has devolved into the dumbest profession on our planet.



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Reply 5 - Posted by: WhamDBambam, 12/1/2012 8:12:28 AM     (No. 9042606)

The NYTwits must tear down American heroes to make room for Marx, Lenin and their ilk.

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Reply 6 - Posted by: cgood, 12/1/2012 8:19:41 AM     (No. 9042619)

Bingo, #5. The left has been tearing us down for decades and now, with the goal in sight, have accelerated their efforts.

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Reply 7 - Posted by: paral04, 12/1/2012 8:22:15 AM     (No. 9042624)

Why should I be outraged about a 200 year-old issue? We need to worry about the fact that the New York Times endorsed Obama who gave 2 billion dollars to the Muslim Brotherhood this year. Now, my tax dollars are underwriting the subjugation of women and slavery in Egypt. Also, the soon to be destruction of the Coptic library and the pyramids. Why isn´t the NY Times writing about that?

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Reply 8 - Posted by: Newtsche, 12/1/2012 8:27:24 AM     (No. 9042631)

Yes, a fantastically ugly article -- "..the third president was a creepy, brutal hypocrite."

With the federal government at the doorstep of final and total control, it is imperative to bury Jefferson and his thinking once and for all.

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Reply 9 - Posted by: Bad Dog, 12/1/2012 8:29:52 AM     (No. 9042634)

Bravo dittoes, #5 and #7!

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Reply 10 - Posted by: Grambo, 12/1/2012 8:34:52 AM     (No. 9042638)

The NYT “journolists” believe that they are the victors of the last election, and as such are now permitted to write history. Ergo, Jefferson is rewritten.

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Reply 11 - Posted by: Muggins, 12/1/2012 8:48:00 AM     (No. 9042658)

You cannot put a pretty face on slavery. It is also problematic to expect people, who lived in America 2 centuries ago, to have the same values and behavior as folks in the 21st Century. A modern person would be appalled to travel back there in time. In fact, they would be physically sick, quite literally, since this is a time before sanitary plumbing. The fact is, you don´t have to go all the way back to Jefferson´s era for a night and day change of culture. Pre-WWII America was brutally racist. But it was a culture in which people were born into, and raised in, and their then contemporary values were as right to them as water to a fish. Our Founding Fathers, many of whom owned slaves, also risked their lives starting a revolution that was the eventual death knell to slavery. We owe them respect and gratitude and endless thanks, and the effort to understand human thought in different eras and cultures.

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Reply 12 - Posted by: Udanja99, 12/1/2012 8:49:17 AM     (No. 9042660)

Hey, Slimes, use your technical abilities to search what your hero, JFK, had to say about Jefferson.

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Reply 13 - Posted by: SteelTurman, 12/1/2012 8:57:19 AM     (No. 9042677)

I´ll open myself up to the coming barrage and commend Jefferson for his prescience.

There, I said it.



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Reply 14 - Posted by: Maybeth, 12/1/2012 9:00:27 AM     (No. 9042684)

Ah yes. Of course.

I have not read Alinsky, but I can easily imagine that part of the ´Plan to Destroy America´ involves the annihilation of our founders´ good names, revealing they were evil white men. I expect Old Media will aid and abet by tearing down any and all heroic leaders of the past. Maybe Maureen can win another Prize with a story about the vicious men who structured the U.S. Constitution.
.....Let´s face it, Obama cannot carry out his tyranny if the Laws of our Land remain intact.

Who will they go after next .... John Adams or Thomas Paine?

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Reply 15 - Posted by: jackburton, 12/1/2012 9:01:35 AM     (No. 9042687)

Just want to point out to all you ´evolved´ types... slavery was considered to be a moral issue that half the country disapproved of but the beneficiaries of it reaped economic benefits that would have been extremely disruptive to abolish. And it was legal.

Kinda like abortion.

Before you go barking off about what Jefferson did, where do YOU stand on abortion?

Oh and, you´re not too late to fight slavery.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/new-islamist-constitution-brings-back-slavery-to-egypt/

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Reply 16 - Posted by: redmom, 12/1/2012 9:08:07 AM     (No. 9042697)

Since the NYT is so concerned about slavery, weakness of character, prejudice and exposing the dark secrets of history, when can we look forward to pieces on Sen. Byrd and Gore Sr.? How about the many atrocities committed by the ROP?

Funny how selective the left is in revealing the dark side of people and history.


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Reply 17 - Posted by: bugboy, 12/1/2012 9:11:44 AM     (No. 9042703)

Its time to stop foisting 21st century values on 18th century thought. Unless you look at their lives and experiences in light of their values you do disservice to the history of that time.

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Reply 18 - Posted by: scipiotexicanus, 12/1/2012 9:13:24 AM     (No. 9042707)

People that judge historical figures or events which occurred 200 or even 50 years ago by modern standards have a child´s understanding of the world and should not be writing or even reading history.

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Reply 19 - Posted by: right-turn, 12/1/2012 9:22:29 AM     (No. 9042730)

I thought I was about to read about the book by Wiencek. Didn´t notice it was in the NYT´s.
Also didn´t know that Finkelman was the one and only true historian.

After all this is classed as an opinion piece as averse to a factual account.

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Reply 20 - Posted by: Lucius Vorenus, 12/1/2012 9:33:03 AM     (No. 9042761)

I hate to have to say this - because our hostess, Lucianne, was born into that Tribe [although I guess now she´s an Anglican Papist] - but her former co-tribalists [in this case, the likes of Wiencek and Finkelman] are on a scorched-earth warpath to absolutely annihilate any positive memories or romantic recollections or wistful reminiscences about the America that once was.

You simply cannot misunderestimate the all-consuming nihilism of the Pharisees.

They´ve been holding this grudge for 2000 years now, and, at this point, they´re so close to the prize that they can hardly contain themselves any longer.


And if that degree of honesty gets me banned from Lucianne, then, well, so much for the salving benefits of Anglican Popery...


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Reply 21 - Posted by: Teleologicus, 12/1/2012 9:34:54 AM     (No. 9042765)

A good example of presentism, malice and moral vanity - in other words, of Leftism.

The author is either uninformed or deliberately disingenuous regarding Thomas Jefferson´s actual beliefs about chattel slavery.

This kind of appalling ignorance and hatred of Americans long dead makes Leftists feel morally superior and provides them a target for their seemingly endless malice, which they disguise from themselves and others as disinterested love of justice. It is all too typical of the mentality and intellectual poverty of modern American college graduates. It finds a receptive audience in kindred souls who elevate their self-esteem by devaluing and denigrating others, especially great and respected figures of the past, "the mighty dead."

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Reply 22 - Posted by: lasvegaslou, 12/1/2012 9:40:23 AM     (No. 9042779)

Want to know why Jefferson is so hated by the liberal media today? He was a (Gasp!) white man who despised the press.

"The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them: inasmuch as he who knows nothing is closer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehood and errors."

"Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle."

Thomas Jefferson - 1807


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Reply 23 - Posted by: old north state, 12/1/2012 9:49:07 AM     (No. 9042798)

Slavery was an accepted institution in every civilization from the dawn of recorded history up until the 19th century AD. Everyone has ancestors who were slaves, and there was nothing unique about the American situation. Yet everyone today exhibits this ahistorical conceit that our founding fathers had the burden of ´knowing´ it was wrong, dispite the evidence of millenia, and stopping the practice immediately.
Oh brave new world to have such people in it.

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Reply 24 - Posted by: Lucius Vorenus, 12/1/2012 9:56:34 AM     (No. 9042815)

A good example of presentism, malice and moral vanity - in other words, of Leftism.

The problem isn´t "Leftism".

The problem is PHARISEEISM.

The Pharisees have been belching this noxious poison into Western Society for more than 150 years - ever since their "emancipation" [and even earlier than that, if you go back to the likes of Spinoza].

Until we are willing to call a spade a spade, then we can´t even begin to regroup and mount a counterattack against them.

The problem isn´t the "Left" - the problem is Marx and Freud and Birkman and Goldman and Luxembourg and Aschberg and Finkelstein and Gompers and Alinsky and Minow and Geithner and Ohrnstein and Blankfein and Bloomberg and Eisner and Moonves and the entire Ochs-Sulzberger clan.

The Pharisees don´t just want to enslave the Shkotzim - the Pharisees want to utterly annihilate them and erase every single memory of them from the history books.


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Reply 25 - Posted by: StormCnter, 12/1/2012 10:01:23 AM     (No. 9042823)

Nah, #21, it´s not "honesty" that offends, it´s the off-topic, drive-by insult that you pretend is not.

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Reply 26 - Posted by: TexaTucky, 12/1/2012 10:10:17 AM     (No. 9042845)

#21 / #25 . . . one of the Jew-baiting, plank-eyed saints from Free Republic ironically railing against Pharisees??

Go peddle your putzery back at the mother ship.

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Reply 27 - Posted by: Lucius Vorenus, 12/1/2012 10:13:31 AM     (No. 9042855)

Nah, #21, it´s not "honesty" that offends, it´s the off-topic, drive-by insult that you pretend is not.

What kind of names are "Wiencek" and "Finkelman"?

Are they Muslim names?

Are they Buddhist names?

Are they Confucian names?

Are they Hindu names?

Are they Zoroastrian names?

For that matter, what kind of name is "Jefferson"?

Is it Ashkenazic?

Is it Sephardic?

Is it Parsic?

Is it [abomination of abominations] Ayhudic?

You damned well EXACTLY what is going on here.



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Reply 28 - Posted by: jorgecito, 12/1/2012 10:13:40 AM     (No. 9042856)

Good post, #11, though we must credit #13´s Wilberforce for the push to end slavery.

You´re right to point out how important the cultural milieu of the time was, to the or tolerance of slavery.

A current example of the influence of the cultural milieu is the "modern" attitude toward abortion. Sixty years ago, abortion was considered a heinous act. But decades of propaganda by the Left has convinced a large segment of our population that abortion should be tolerated.

Years from now, future generations will look back on our time, and shake their heads at our tolerance of the excruciatingly cruel practice of abortion
-- just as current academics excoriate our Founders for tolerating slavery.


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Reply 29 - Posted by: TrueBlueWfan, 12/1/2012 10:22:32 AM     (No. 9042878)

First of all, I won´t click on a NYT article, but I think they should have their researchers work on something a little more relevant, say Barry´s college transcripts or where Barry was during the Benghazi attack.

Second, I will never believe, nor do I think they can prove that Thomas Jefferson had a fling with Sally Hemmings and fathered her children. DNA from heirs might indicate a Jefferson, but Thomas had a father and a brother that could be the culprit. I will not make that leap.

Third, Jefferson was a man of his time - and people in that day owned slaves. It was wrong, but it was a way of life then.

Thomas Jefferson was a great man and a great president and Barack Obama is not fit to enter Monticello, should he ever desire.

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Reply 30 - Posted by: Susannah, 12/1/2012 10:40:00 AM     (No. 9042921)

#12, #25, #28, even Titus Pullo isn´t going to get you out of this one.

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Reply 31 - Posted by: Susannah, 12/1/2012 10:40:45 AM     (No. 9042924)

Sorry: Meant Poster 21, 25, and 28.

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Reply 32 - Posted by: MissMolly, 12/1/2012 10:43:13 AM     (No. 9042931)

#21/25/28, None of that makes much sense. The subject is Thomas Jefferson and an article from the NY Times. The subject is not"Pharisees", "nihilism" nor our hostess´s family history.

You are off topic, as an earlier poster pointed out. But, I suspect your goal is to get banned, whereupon you can squall about censorship.

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Reply 33 - Posted by: MissMolly, 12/1/2012 10:44:07 AM     (No. 9042935)

Sorry about the runaway italics.

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Reply 34 - Posted by: kanphil, 12/1/2012 11:02:39 AM     (No. 9042974)

#26, I recommend we keep #21 around for comic relief.

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Reply 35 - Posted by: Teleologicus, 12/1/2012 11:16:20 AM     (No. 9043002)

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/quotations-slavery-and-emancipation is a good reference source for those who would like ready information about the truth of Thomas Jefferson and chattel slavery. As noted before, the author of the NYT piece(and book) is either appallingly ignorant or deliberately disingenuous on this topic. Knowingly or not, he is spreading false information about Jefferson and slavery. The good news is that it is now possible and easy to check such things out for oneself on the internet.

Paul Finkelman should be ashamed of himself. The NYT should be ashamed of itself for publishing this grossly misleading and untruthful column. There are still people who actually believe what they read in the NYT. They will be harmed by such lies, which are entirely preventable and therefore all the more inexcusable.





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Reply 36 - Posted by: mws50, 12/1/2012 11:27:05 AM     (No. 9043031)

So no one at the NYT gives a hoot about today´s slavery issues.

Google "modern-day slavery". It is happening in the USA right now, but no libtard seems to care. They want to bash our Founders.

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Reply 37 - Posted by: msjena, 12/1/2012 11:29:26 AM     (No. 9043034)

What Jefferson did or thought in his personal life has had no effect on the rights of black Americans. What he wrote, in the Declaration, is the reason slavery ended and the basis for equality of black Americans under the law.

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Reply 38 - Posted by: Nevadadad46, 12/1/2012 11:44:50 AM     (No. 9043053)

The goal of the Socialist reformers is first to take over and redefine the language. They have done that with excellence- result is a frozen "group think" encased in the defines of political correctness. Secondly, they re-frame the nation´s history. They erase the sacred heritage that protects the ideals the nation was founded upon. Then they attack the very heroes that established the nation at great cost in treasure and blood. They do this so they can then install their own ideals, hertiage and heroes and feed the result like pablum to the children. In the end, they reaise up an entirely new generation of "Think Alike" little monsters that demand the complete erasure of the old nation and the installation of the new slave state- and they are so enthralled to march into slavery of the state, they exalt the new "God Hero" elect.

Does any of this sound at all familiar to anyone?

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Reply 39 - Posted by: ColonialAmerican1623, 12/2/2012 2:08:39 AM     (No. 9043929)

Writers are getting to be like politicians.
Way too many justifying their existence.

I believe the founding fathers were more educated and dedicated than the current politicians. What they did at the time cannot be reproduced today. Today, they would still be arguing about what color paper to sign and how to cover PC.

Paul should put as much effort into Benghazi or Zippy´s college records.

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Mediaite, by Evan McMurry    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 4/13/2014 9:14:46 PM     Post Reply
On Fox News Sunday, political analyst Brit Hume said that Eric Holder’s claim that his treatment at the hands of Representative Louie Gohmert (R-TX) at a House hearing this week was unprecedented toward an Attorney General, made him a “crybaby,” and that he and President Barack Obama had in fact benefited “enormously” from being the first African Americans in their respective positions. “This strikes me as kinda crybaby stuff from Holder,” Hume said. “My sense about this is both Eric Holder and Barack Obama have benefited politically enormously from the fact that they are African American and the first to

Why The Feds Chickened Out
On A Nevada Ranch

36 replie(s)
Townhall, by Kevin McCullough    Original Article
Posted By: Drive- 4/13/2014 11:55:18 AM     Post Reply
Let me obliterate a bit of confusion here: the Obama administration attempted to go to war with a rancher in Nevada. Let me amplify a little bit of truth: They tucked tail and have returned home. And let me add a bit of clarity: they had no choice! As the nation began to become familiar with the plight of the family of Cliven Bundy, many of us harkened back to another standoff in which the Federal government attempted to bully it´s outcome: Waco, Texas and the Branch Davidian massacre. It is telling that in the Nevada case the feds pulled out so

Why Hillary v. Jeb Would
Be Great for America

35 replie(s)
Daily Beast, by Mark McKinnon    Original Article
Posted By: Desert Fox- 4/13/2014 6:11:32 PM     Post Reply
They’re both qualified, respectful of each other (shocker!), and represent the vast majority of middle America. So what’s not to like about another Clinton/Bush race for 2016? When you mention the prospect of Clinton vs. Bush 2016 a funny thing happens. First, there is the reflexive response: "Oh no, not again. We don´t need more dynastic politics in this country." But upon further reflection, you realize Jeb Bush vs. Hillary Clinton would be a great race and actually good for the country. Let´s review. QUALIFICATIONS—THEY’VE BOTH GOT THEM. Barack Obama won the presidency because in an election where the premium was on change, it mattered little

The world must shift to solar and wind
power rapidly to avoid catastrophic global
warming, say UN scientists in major report

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Daily Mail (U.K.), by Ben Spencer    Original Article
Posted By: Desert Fox- 4/13/2014 7:15:31 PM     Post Reply
A rapid shift to wind and solar power is needed if the world is to avoid catastrophic global warming, the United Nations warns in a crucial report today. Emissions of greenhouse gases need to be cut by up to 70 per cent before 2050 to control climate change, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says. ‘Large-scale changes in energy systems’ are required, with coal power stations to be switched off and replaced by wind and solar. And the transformation needs to be made in the next 15 years or controlling climate change will become increasingly harder and more expensive. The report was published

Chelsea Clinton no longer
ruling out politics

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The Hill (Washington DC), by Judy Katz    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 4/14/2014 11:57:36 AM     Post Reply
Chelsea Clinton says when people ask her these days whether she wants to go into politics, her answer isn’t an automatic “no.” The 34-year-old former first daughter told Fast Company in an interview published Monday, “for so long the answer was just a visceral no. Not because I had made any conscientious, deliberate decision, but since people had been asking for as long as literally I could remember, it was no." Now, the only child of former President Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton explains, "I live in a city and a state and a country where I

Glaring limits of the Civil Rights
Act: We need to redistribute wealth

33 replie(s)
Salon Magazine, by Matt Bruenig    Original Article
Posted By: KarenJ1- 4/14/2014 7:20:41 PM     Post Reply
Although the Civil Rights Act, the landmark legislation which just reached its 50th anniversary, made great strides in desegregating the economy, economic discrimination is still widespread, and anti-discrimination legislation alone can never rectify the economic damage inflicted upon blacks by slavery and our Jim Crow apartheid regime. The Civil Rights Act was a mild reform, all things considered, but one conservatives fought with vigor and one many conservatives are still bitter about to this day. When the Civil Rights Act passed in 1964, the primary purpose was to root out discrimination in public accommodations (like hotels and movie theaters)

Ben Carson: White House wanted
apology for ‘offending’ Obama

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Daily Caller, by Alex Pappas    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 4/15/2014 5:22:51 AM     Post Reply
Neurosurgeon Ben Carson says the White House wanted him to apologize for “offending” President Obama after he famously delivered a conservative message at the National Prayer Breakfast last year. Carson, the former director of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital, recalls the events surrounding his 2013 speech in his new book, One Nation: What We Can All Do To Save America’s Future. The Daily Caller obtained an advance copy of the book, which is set for release May 20. “He did not appear to be hostile or angry,” Carson writes of Obama, “but within a matter of minutes after the conclusion of

Nevada GOP removes social issues from platform,
moves ahead with pre-primary endorsements

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Associated Press, by Sandra Chereb    Original Article
Posted By: StormCnter- 4/13/2014 3:48:58 PM     Post Reply
LAS VEGAS — The Nevada Republican Party stripped opposition to abortion and gay marriage from its platform Saturday as state convention delegates instead focused on judging fellow Republicans on their worthiness to serve in office and adherence to GOP values. The platform, with few changes, was adopted overwhelmingly as the Las Vegas convention stretched late into the evening. The vote mirrors that of the Clark County GOP, which voted earlier to remove platform language defining marriage as between a man and a woman and statements opposing abortion. Many Republicans are re-evaluating their strong stances on conservative social issues as public

Video: Flash mob of women steal
$20,000 worth of sunglasses
from California store

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New York Daily News, by Staff    Original Article
Posted By: Ribicon- 4/13/2014 10:50:38 AM     Post Reply
A brazen flash mob has been caught on camera storming a California store and making off with $20,000 worth of sunglasses. Surveillance footage shows eight women piling into a Sunglass Hut and crowding around display cases. Shielding workers from what they´re doing, they quickly stuff dozens of fashion specs into their bags. A store clerk pleads with them to stop, before running out of the shot to get help and dial 911. The thieves then all bolt outside and escape in a waiting SUV. The incident occurred at the Valencia Town Center mall, in Santa Clarita, at 3 p.m. on

Obama Selects First Openly Gay
Episcopal Bishop to Lead Easter Prayer

27 replie(s)
Mediaite, by Andrew Kirell    Original Article
Posted By: JoniTx- 4/14/2014 12:46:05 PM     Post Reply
President Obama pulled a surprise move Monday at the White House’s Easter Prayer Breakfast when he selected Gene Robinson to lead the closing prayer. Robinson is famously known as the first openly gay Episcopal bishop. Talking Points Memo’s Tom Kludt spotted the following tweet from Robinson, who was in attendance: (Tweet) Robinson, 66, became diocesan bishop of New Hampshire in March 2004. He retired in January 2013 and is currently a senior fellow at the progressive

Developing: Russian fighter jet buzzes
U.S. Navy destroyer in Black Sea

27 replie(s)
Associated Press, by Lolita C. Baldor    Original Article
Posted By: Desert Fox- 4/14/2014 12:49:12 PM     Post Reply
A Russian fighter jet made multiple, close-range passes near an American warship in the Black Sea for more than 90 minutes Saturday amid escalating tensions in the region, a U.S. military official said Monday. In the first public account of the incident, the official said the Russian Fencer flew within 1,000 yards of the USS Donald Cook, a Navy destroyer, at about 500 feet above sea level. Ship commanders considered the actions provocative and inconsistent with international agreements, prompting the ship to issue several radio queries and warnings. The fighter appeared to be unarmed and never was in danger of

You´re in denial if
you think Steve Israel is
wrong about GOP racism

26 replie(s)
Daily Beast, by Michael Tomasky    Original Article
Posted By: Fiesta del sol- 4/14/2014 6:09:58 AM     Post Reply
Some time back, whenever a big racial controversy erupted, I trained myself into the habit of reading about it at FoxNews.com, just for the unbelievable comment threads. Let’s put it this way: If my friends and I went out to a bar and started playing a “let’s write the racist FoxNews.com comment thread” drinking game, our efforts couldn’t begin to approach what I read there.I wasn’t alone. Liberal websites started feasting on these threads. And so, a couple of years ago, Ailes & Co. got wise. Stories about race were, at least in my disheartened experience, closed to comments.


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